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Topic: Wings Over France Demo

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All Forums : [GAMES] : Computer Gaming > Wings Over France Demo

#1 1 MAR 2005 at 6:54pm
mwindsor Centurion Posts : 212 Joined: 25 FEB 2004 Status : Online	I haven't been able to spend any time with it, but you can download the Wings Over France demo here http://www.roogames.co.uk/WingsDemo.html The demo has two patrols over France in April, 1917. Mike Windsor Fort Worth, Texas
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#2 1 MAR 2005 at 8:24pm
kellysheroes Commander Posts : 1722 Joined: 29 OCT 2003 Status : Online	Oh boy thanks mwindsor, can't wait to play this demo and the release of this game. Been wanting a good strategy WWI airwar game since the days of "Eagles" by SSI. STRATEGY & TACTICS: http://www.decisiongames.com/mags/st.htm BUY GAMES:w/FREE SHIPPING http://www.amazon.com GOgamer 48 hour Madness Sales: http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Catalog I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!
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#3 1 MAR 2005 at 11:09pm
mwindsor Centurion Posts : 212 Joined: 25 FEB 2004 Status : Online	I like the couple of hours that I've spent with WOF Demo. Navigating the first menu is a bit off, you need to go to the help screen, before you can get into the actual demo. Also, you apparently need to go in and delete your saved game before you can try again (or maybe this is common in British games). I haven't bothered to read anything, just jumped right in. The graphics are early 1990's, and there is an odd teletype for your messages (not exactly a 1917 invention). But the game play is really addictive. It seems like a lot of the work in the game will be assigning pilots. On the "strategic" map, you move a hex, change altitude, split your squadron, and/or land. The tactical display allows you to attack with different length of bursts or try and evade. You really don't get to decide what manuvers to make (like in Flight Commander 2). That's a little bit of a downer. On the other hand, the results seem the way you would expect. My group was taking pot shots at a train, and got caught at low altitude by three Germans. All of my planes were damaged, and three of the four had a hard time evading. The least experienced pilot was shot down, and another plane crash landed later. All told, it is what I would have expected when getting jumped 3 on 4. In a way, the game seems a bit like the AARs of Down in Flames that I've read. If that description helps. Mike Windsor Fort Worth, Texas
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#4 2 MAR 2005 at 3:25am
kellysheroes Commander Posts : 1722 Joined: 29 OCT 2003 Status : Online	I keep getting script errors about 3/4 way through the missions. When trying to select which plane I want to attack. Apparently you don't always get a choice even when you are on the tail of one, it makes you fight the one 3 squares behind you. It doesn't allow you do to very much but move a hex at a time on the strategic map and climb or dive. No maneuvers whatsoever on the combat screen, just an attack button is all you get to press and then the burst type short, medium or long (depending on your ammo and deflection of the shot). It looks totally based on pilot stats and luck. For instance my sopwith 1-1/2 was attacked by 3 germans and it shot up two of them and the other decided running was the better part of valor. Not exactly what I expected, "Eagles" seemed to allow for more maneuvering as I recall like loop da loops and barrel rolls and banking, climbing and diving during the dogfights, there is none of this in this game that I see. This is purely pilot skill and luck. You spend more time reading the text of what is going on than really actually doing anything. Pilots come with 3 ratings (S)kill (M)aneuver (F)iring. After several rounds of a dogfight you get the opportunity to continue the attack or try to evade, once again, that's all the things you get to do, pick attack or evade. If you don't evade successfully or the enemy, of course you get to go back to the combat screen and read more text of the battle, and it has what I would call grade C or D combat graphics, the planes are basically stationary and a black blob of bullets comes firing out of one of them and is either a hit (with text of what happened) or a miss, rince and repeat till those rounds are over. Looks like about 3 or 4 rounds per dogfight. There's artillery barrages in almost every hex once you cross the no mans land boundary line. This is all "pure luck" on the aritllerys part, you have nothing you can do but climb or dive each turn before the artillery fires. It does appear though if you climb and dive, the artillery is less effective. If you stay at a certain altitude, it seems to zone in on you moreso. The attacks on ground targets is about the same as artillery barrages, lotta luck. But, you do get to pick which planes in the flight dive down and attack and what type of bursts you wish to use, short or medium or long (depending on your ammo levels and deflection of shots). I'm going to assume here that your pilots gain in their 3 pilot abilities as they complete missions and effectiveness per mission. Nothing I am sure of though. The MAP is kinda funny, it looks like something a 10 year old might have drawn, but, probably a more realistic map for the time period. Basically it's a piece of paper with scribblings of airbases, no mans land boundaries, railroad lines, roads, rivers, etc. etc. done with a pencil. I would call it a "shorthand type of map". If you know what shorthand is you will understand what I mean I think. The AI for what I can see, is balanced at least for the demo. I had to face the Red Baron in one mission along with 3 other german planes and he is very good. He shot down one plane and crippled another before running out of ammo and fleeing without a scratch. He likes to challenge your planes to a "personal duel" and it doesn't appear that you have a "choice", there were no other options but to accept the duel (press the personal duel button) for that particular pilot/plane. You can also tell his plane, the typical bright red triplane, top down view of course. It also appears it gets the jump on your planes at every opportunity that I have encountered german planes. I have yet to see one where I have spotted German planes and get to dive in on them, even keeping one flight 1 level higher than the other in altitude. But, overall the "feel" is right to it. The atmosphere is right to it. The plane quality "feels" right. The not so much hands on during the dogfights is not what I expected. But, this is a design decision, it doesn't make it a bad game/demo, because this would be another one of those Civil War Battle of Bull Run type games of "Command Decision". I wouldn't pay $40 for it though, this is a $19.99 game or less and probably one of those I would wait on a bargain bin price unless it is under $20. STRATEGY & TACTICS: http://www.decisiongames.com/mags/st.htm BUY GAMES:w/FREE SHIPPING http://www.amazon.com GOgamer 48 hour Madness Sales: http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Catalog I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!
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#5 2 MAR 2005 at 5:54am
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	This is a game Im going to buy. It is everything I expected it to be. Great atmosphere and a sense of roleplay. Great gameplay and addivtive how many games can say they have this. The prce will be £25. Yes sounds steep but how many of you have bought games for £30 played for a few hours and eithe rfinished it or never gone back. This game will last longer than that, far longer and thats what counts so the price is good. Your also supporting a small company not so big multi national. Also things like bravery are acounted for. Here is a link to a run down of the game. http://www.roogames.co.uk/Wings.html Also like many good games (I.E Squad Battles) it first appears tht you dont have much to do, howeve rwhen you understand the system it turns out you do have, here is another link that gives you an idea of play. http://forums.delphiforums.com/roogames/messages/?msg=126.1 You also get the full game manual in the demo. Finally all the graphics are bmp's so you prob can mod them.
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#6 2 MAR 2005 at 7:34am
Black Cat Centurion Posts : 90 Joined: 2 MAY 2003 Status : Online	It looks likes an old DOS Game in interface & graphics, little if any control of the combat, but that`s all OK if there`s some depth to it. Sadly I`m getting clipping on the AC icons movements and it locks up in the Dogfights.
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#7 2 MAR 2005 at 8:21am
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	Just gave it a go. I take back some of my comments. I had high hopes in certian areas. I have to agree the lack of control during dogfights is most unfortunate. The graphics are pretty much what I expected but in hindsight it is over priced.
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#8 2 MAR 2005 at 9:11am
AndyfromVA Commander Posts : 2139 Joined: 13 DEC 2002 Status : Online	Sounds like there are some good ideas, but the execution leaves something to be desired. I plan to download the demo myself and see. I suggest that you post any comments to the Roo games message board on Delphi for the company to consider. Roo is a quality organization. I've tried some of the sports demo's from them and find the games to be pretty good, considering that Roo is a very small operation (1 person does all the programming I think).
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#9 2 MAR 2005 at 9:42am
mwindsor Centurion Posts : 212 Joined: 25 FEB 2004 Status : Online	I pulled this announcement off of the Roo Games message board: "Wings Over – April 1917 "After a long and arduous mission (unlike the pilots, we never had a chance of being shot down) the PC version of Wings Over France is very near completion. "Those of you who have played the original version will see many, many familiar aspects, and quite a few un-familiar ones. Those who haven’t will find a game which is a very pleasant distraction from all those replay games! "Wings lets you take control of one or more flights from 23 Squadron of the Royal Flying orps, based in Amiens, France during the period of World War One forever known as ‘Bloody April’. Each 10 man flight consists of 6 scouts (single-seater ‘fighters’) and 2 two-seaters (used of observation, bombing, Artillery spotting and taking photos of enemy areas). Each flight has been assigned different aircraft, each providing their own challenges. A mixture of skill and experience amongst the airmen also provides you with many challenges. "The Allies were on the offensive during this period so most of your missions will be in enemy territory, opening you up to the dangers of the ‘Archie’ (anti-aircraft fire), and ground machine gunners. The major problem though was the undisputed fact that the Germans were better! They had superior machines, superior pilots and an elite Jasta 11 squadron led by the infamous Baron Manfred von Richtofen (The Red Baron). "You will be assigned missions at the start of each day, ranging from Balloon Bursting to various patrols, Trench Strafing to bombing, oh and a few special missions throw in. It is up to you to assign when to fly, which pilots to use, and what your strategy will be for the day. "Make sure you check the weather, which is one of those features far removed from the original game. The weather is a constantly changing beast, with an hour by hour forecast provided at the start of the day. The weather fronts move realistically across the screen, blocking your view of the ground if you are above any cloud layer. There’s nothing more frustrating than sitting above a thunderstorm waiting for it to clear before taking the precious photos (damn the weathermen for getting their timings wrong!). Watch out for the wind as well. The prevailing direction is towards the enemy, so it can be a slow and dangerous trip back home to safety. "The beauty of the game (as with all Terry’s products) lies in the myriad of small decisions to be made regarding both pilot and mission selection and, most importantly, those which need to be made during the mission itself. When you are having a good day, the temptation is to stay around the target for just a bit longer, when it has been a bad day the temptation is to stay around the target for just a bit longer…… When a plane is damaged, do you send him home (with an escort?). Do we fly above or below the clouds? Hmmm, 2 Germans 4,000ft below, shall we have a go at them? There’s so much more involved that you really get into the game very quickly and very deeply. "You win or lose through Victory Points, which are awarded for achievements in each mission. But even if you lose (likely), you might have the satisfaction of keeping some guys alive for the entire campaign (unlikely) and maybe even seeing them being awarded a medal (very unlikely!). You might even shoot down the Red Baron (in your dreams!!). "The human touch. Each pilot has a short biography (does the fact that Jones was married two weeks ago influence your decision to send him up single-handed?), and a photo. If they survive for a few days (a big if!), you will get attached to them, and quickly come to know their strengths and weaknesses. They may prove a frustration, a solid guy or someone special, but one thing is for certain, you will hate losing any of them. There are one hundred and thirty-five replacements awaiting call-up, each with a bio and photo (we originally only had 114, but Terry ran out!!). "If you are looking for flashy graphics then Wings may not be for you. The graphics and sound effects are there to provide the atmosphere which surrounded April 1917. You will wince every time Archie explodes on top of your plane, cringe when bullets thud home, and be stunned when one of your planes falls out of the air, crashing into the ground below. The enjoyment lies in the decisions you have to make and the involvement in the game, not the re-paints you can do or the mods you can install. "Wings Over France 1917 is highly addictive, easy to understand and play and, if your favourite team loses in your ongoing replay, a good way to kick some *** to get rid of your frustrations (your cat will thank us!). "The demo is available from www.roogames.co.uk/wingsdemo.html and the full version is scheduled for release on 7th March. Cost will be £25 with postage included. "Richard" While most games focus on the action of the dogfight, it looks like Roo's focus was intentionally shifted to managing your squadron. The one day demo likely doesn't give you a good feel for the decisions you will need to make as the game progresses. Still, I'd like to have seen more decisions available in the dogfights, and a bit less of a hit to the wallet. -Mike Mike Windsor Fort Worth, Texas
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#10 2 MAR 2005 at 3:22pm
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	If you choose the lower graphic options you get a more detailed teleprint of the dogfight which is actually far more excting than watching the planes. Just a tip!
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#11 2 MAR 2005 at 4:06pm
kellysheroes Commander Posts : 1722 Joined: 29 OCT 2003 Status : Online	ORIGINAL: Wodin Just gave it a go. I take back some of my comments. I had high hopes in certian areas. I have to agree the lack of control during dogfights is most unfortunate. The graphics are pretty much what I expected but in hindsight it is over priced. Lol Wodin you sure changed your pricing tune awful quick! lol After futher play (and finally reading the rules), I had a go at all 3 missions the demo offers. Completed the 1st two without losing a single plane, shot down two german planes and obtained a little over 100 experience points for the combined 2. The Twilight mission I took the base commander and had completed it, but, when I moved back into my side of the zone the game "locked up", don't know what cased this, but, there's sometimes quirks in the demo, I just hope these will be found and fixed before a final release. I still stick by it's a $19.99 game at best. While understanding more of the rules and accepting the "command decision" part of the combat, I would have wished for more out of the tactical battle portion. Understanding it more it's all about pilot skill and initiative. Now I understand why I have to fight a plane 3 squares behind me. The futher to the right on the combat display window you are the better initiative you have and you or the enemy will do most of the attacking and those to the left will either do the defending or put in a "hold" position and may or may not enter that combat round, all determined by the computer and some random factors. You have to worry about your ammo, but, you get to bring along 3 extra cannisters of ammo, which are 100 rounds in each, basically 4 long shots, 6 medium shots and 12 short burts for each can. The real depth of the game comes in handling your planes, fuel consumption vs objective, altitude, ammo consumption, damage to planes and/or pilots, stalls which can detach one of your planes from the squadron, which planes to use in dogfights, which ones to hold, which ones to use in ground attacks and which ones to hold out. You also have to deal with wounded pilots and damaged planes not being available for future missions. Experience comes from activity though, so if you want that 1, 1, 1, pilot to ever become anything you have to put him in action. Sort of like X-Com you grow to really like your best pilots and when one gets shot down I can see where it would hurt, especially if he's a 9, 10, 10. Bravery in this unlike X-Com, you don't know who's brave and who is not until you actually "see it in action", that's not too bad, and adds depth in that you have to "discover" who the chickenchits are and use them sparingly or just get them wasted like I did in X-Com. Damage to another plane while having to do with skill of the pilot, also can be determine by the type of shot, short has a lesser chance of hitting, but, also a lesser chance of the gun jamming. While long bursts get a bonus to hit, there is also a bigger chance of guns jamming. Medium bursts I would call about equal on both. After playing it more, I can definitely see the depth of "stats" (made by sports game enthusiasts. There's definately an abundance of stats on each pilot and mission goals completed. I can see pilots can increase and also decrease in stats, depending on what happens. What I can't see from the demo, but, can sort of asertain from the rules, there are a limited number of "types" of missions. This would lead to the question, how long before repetitiveness and redundancy would set in for the player. User Interface is simple enough (heh, my one liner about the interface) lol Take that Aaron. Overall I would give the demo the follow numbers: Graphics 6 (not important to me, but, it's not state of the art) Depth 8.5 (enough depth to satisfy a beginner easily and a grog for at least $20 worth of a game, the stats alone are worth of the depth figures and pilot growth.) Fun 8 (scaling downward, the repetitiveness would bring the replayablity fun factor downward over a period of time based on a players complexity and challenge levels) Longevity 5 (something you would play through, put away and play after several months or perhaps years again for nostalgia sake) Overall 8 (and I'm leaning on 8 because I like WWI airwar games, so there's a "biased" figure because of my own personal likes. At least I'm honest enough to put it in my reviews and scores "unlike some reviewers we know ) Epilogue: Had the game had a strategy game along with a more hands on "tactical" game, it would have scored higher numbers with me in the fun and longevity figures. This is almost the perfect WWI airwar sim, but, without tactical combat, I will still be seeking that in some future WWI airware game. A combination of this game and Blue Max online would have been the perfect marriage. STRATEGY & TACTICS: http://www.decisiongames.com/mags/st.htm BUY GAMES:w/FREE SHIPPING http://www.amazon.com GOgamer 48 hour Madness Sales: http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Catalog I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!
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#12 2 MAR 2005 at 5:59pm
mwindsor Centurion Posts : 212 Joined: 25 FEB 2004 Status : Online	I think that kellysheroes' review is pretty on target. For what it is, most of the game is pretty fun. Some of it is not real intuitive. For example, the dogfight screen reads left (planes with the least initiative) to right (those with the most). I keep thinking that a plane is diving from behind by looking at the screen, then getting a message about a front pass. That is because, while a plane had the initiative, you cannot tell the attack angle from looking at the screen. Its annoying. A few additions would have made this into a steller game. A better tactical layout would be an improvement, even if you didn't get to make any additional decisions (at least you'd know where everyone was in relation to everyone else). More decision making in the tactical game would also have been great. I seem to recall an old WW2 dogfighting game (Over the Reich maybe) that let you dogfight in turns (although some of the fights got way too long as that one fighter just wouldn't quit chasing you, but never caught up). That might be asking too much of this developer to esentially give you two games in one, but that would be a hell of a game. Within the confines of the game that is there (as opposed to what I wish was there), I'd like to see a few more time periods during the war and a few more maps. That would also mean new airplanes. I'd also like to play the Germans or French. For the price of the game, it ought to be included (or a free add-on or mod). Mike Windsor Fort Worth, Texas
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#13 2 MAR 2005 at 7:17pm
mwindsor Centurion Posts : 212 Joined: 25 FEB 2004 Status : Online	Some info from the developer's forum: "The initiative track allows dogfights to be created and completed quite quickly. I understand what you are asking [showing each plane's altitude and aspect], but that would require a three-dimentional tracking system, which would seriously increase the complexity of the programming. Dogfights are just a part of the overall game, and I think there is sufficient detail with what we have to allow decisions to be made in the context of the overall campaign. "[Enemy planes] appear randomly in the sense that they do not follow a flight plan, but their appearance (and make-up) is determined by internal rules. Again, this was something we thought about, but if you were to be in control of all 3 flights you might well have 4-5 missions up at the same time and to track and make sensible decisions on German patrols would again add a degree of complexity which I don't feel the game needs. [You may encounter damaged enemy planes.] "With all games there has to be a starting point. The future depends on the success of the game. I see no reason why add-ons [different months and locations] can't be released in the future, but let's wait and see the response." I'll give the developer credit, his response to my questions was within an hour. I also appreciate the "it is what it is" response as opposed to the "promise everything in a future update" response. Mike Windsor Fort Worth, Texas
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#14 2 MAR 2005 at 9:06pm
jferrypilot Centurion Posts : 3 Joined: 2 MAR 2005 Status : Online	I must agree with most of the posts that this one is pretty weak given the current state of things. I have the second edition of the boardgame and it is much better. The PC version does not do it justice at all. Several thoughts: 1. The map in the PC is very bad. I guess they were trying to simulate a real map of the period, but come on. 2. The plane graphics in the demo version I played were 1980's. A simple reproduction of the counters would have been better. 3. The sounds are OK, but that typewriter gets a little annoying. 4. Since this is more of a management sim, why can't I see the whole board when in flight? It really doesn't effect the appearance of the enemy to see the map as the hex encounter numbers do it for you. 5. As discussed in the consimworld folder, the weather changing every hex is way too frequent. Overall the boardgame is a very good product for replicating the tension around command and assignment of resources. It is not a simulation of aerial combat as mentioned. Personally, I was hoping for more of a tool to help with all the bookkeeping and shuffling of crews and planes. As this is the demo I cannot speak for the final product, but do yourself a favor and buy the boardgame and save your money. No disrespect meant to anyone, but this one just doesn't cut it. John
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#15 2 MAR 2005 at 9:45pm
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	Played one mission. The game is farmore enjoyable with text only option ticked. You get a more descriptive commentary during dogfights that adds far more intensitiy than the graphics. One of my planes was downed and taken POW. Another was hit in the fuel tank which just before landing burst into flames and it was goodnight. Two others made it back. I destroyed one staff car,got a few VP's for trench strafe and damaged a troop train. I had two engagements with a jasta and never cause dany damage. I think over a campaign it will be more invloved than this demo. More decisions to make etc. It has a charm after awhile and I might buy it.
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#16 4 FEB 2006 at 1:55pm
Queeg Centurion Posts : 606 Joined: 27 MAR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Did anyone here ever spend more time with this one? Any reviews? Thanks.
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#17 5 FEB 2006 at 11:06am
djdemo Colonel Posts : 8465 Joined: 29 JUN 2004 Location: UK Status : Offline	ORIGINAL: Wodin This is a game Im going to buy. Boardgame is better... something to be said for actually rolling the dice and using pen and paper. "To those looking for 'Victory' they know where they can find it; it's somewhere in the dictionary between the words Venereal and Virus."
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#18 5 FEB 2006 at 12:23pm
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	I never bought it anyway. Ive just downloaded the Version 2 demo. It is a fun and addictive little game.
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#19 5 FEB 2006 at 1:34pm
Queeg Centurion Posts : 606 Joined: 27 MAR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	I played the demo yesterday and agree it's a sleeper. It is fun and addictive, with great atmosphere. I'll probably buy the full game.
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#20 7 FEB 2006 at 11:11am
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	Anyone notice that the plane graphics mess up at higher resolutions?
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#21 7 FEB 2006 at 5:55pm
Queeg Centurion Posts : 606 Joined: 27 MAR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Yes. I get corrupt graphics (misalligned menu buttons and game icons) unless I reset my desktop to 1024x768.
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#22 7 FEB 2006 at 7:03pm
Wodin Banned for 1621 days Posts : 2325 Joined: 18 JAN 2006 Location: UK, Liverpool Status : Offline	I wonder if there is a work around?
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#23 7 FEB 2006 at 7:06pm
Queeg Centurion Posts : 606 Joined: 27 MAR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	By the way, I'm really enjoying this game. It's definitely Old School in graphics but it really hits the nail on the head in terms of atmosphere and "feel." On one of my last patrols, my rookie pilot develops engine trouble so I split him off and send him home. Limping home, he's attacked by three Huns, which he somehow manages to avoid with only a couple of minor hits. Next turn, though, he's ambushed by three Jasta scouts, which hit him at least ten times - severing bracing wires, shredding his wings, puncturing his fuel tank and riddling his engine. Somehow, though, he survives, puts down in a muddy field, flips his plane - and walks away! I nearly cheered out loud. I couldn't believe how much I found myself pulling for that guy. Great experience - the reason we play these games in the first place. Also, I found a revised version of the kneeboard map (the hand-drawn map in the game). It's a bit more polished looking. Link: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dlrichtm/WoF/kneemap.zip.
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#24 7 FEB 2006 at 7:08pm
Queeg Centurion Posts : 606 Joined: 27 MAR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Haven't found one. I tried setting my videocard to disable image scaling, figuring the game would then run at 1024x768, but it still stretched to fill the screen and had graphic weirdness. Resetting the desktop works fine, though. Minor hassle.
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Topic: Wings Over France Demo

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