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Topic: Who'd Win? Star Trek or Star Wars?

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All Forums : [THE MILITARY ACADEMY] : Military History : Alternative History, Science Fiction & Fantasy > Who'd Win? Star Trek or Star Wars?

#26 16 DEC 2006 at 9:08am
Uberhauskaninichen Centurion Posts : 465 Joined: 22 JUN 2006 Status : Offline	Oh, and about the phaser. There's one thing I've always loved in Star Trek, and it happens whenever they encounter some unidentified, but dangerous, space thingy: "Fire phasers!" "Phasers have no effect, Captain." "Fire phasers, full power!" (In other words, try.) "Our phasers have no effect, Captain." You have to love a sci-fi weapon that seems uniquely incapable of functioning as a weapon. Maybe if they somehow harnessed the power of their "randiness", the Federation could win a fight. Fortunately for the Empire, Lucas wrote it in that the Empire could blow up whatever they came across, [b]lest they have to think. [/b]What colour armour (if it really is armour-it doesn't stop rebel blasters, nor Ewok flint knives) does the Science Division of the Stormtroopers wear? As for Crown Royale, you think that's scotch? [:-] And apart from producing that appalling, misguided website U of Waterloo produces some of the best programmers in N. America. And yes, Spock's goatee makes him evil, really evil. I myself have a half-grown beard at the moment. Fortunately for Annie and Grand Muff Tarkin, this poll asked which would win the Federation or the Empire and not the Terran Empire against the other second rate empire. [image]http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200303/tos-039-the-mirror-universe-ky/320x240.jpg[/image] "I am a thirty second bomb. I am a thirty second bomb. Twenty-nine, twenty-eight..." Robert A. Heinlein [U]Starship Troopers[/U] 1959
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#27 16 DEC 2006 at 6:53pm
Space_Tycoon Centurion Posts : 4 Joined: 15 OCT 2006 Status : Online	I say Star Trek Deep Space Nine. It was at this time that the various races of Alpha and Beta Quadrant pooled their military resources to meet the Dominion threat. The Fed's alone probably would not be able to defeat the Galactic Empire, unless they used guerrilla-style tactics a la the Rebel Alliance. But Starfleet, along with the Klingons, Romulans, Andorians and various others would probably win in the end. The Empire was top-heavy, bureacratic, laden down with groupthink and fairly unimaginative tactics. The Alpha/Beta Quadrant races would bring a lot of flexibility to the battle. It would a long, tough slog but I have faith they could do it. Now if you'll excuse me, the tape's coming off of my glasses. [ ] Oh, and I know a better question: who would win, the aliens from X-Files, the aliens from Close Encounters, or the aliens from Signs? [ ]
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#28 16 DEC 2006 at 7:17pm
GDS Starfury General Posts : 16394 Joined: 26 MAY 2001 Location: 0, Starbase 10 Status : Offline	the aliens from Mexico.
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#29 16 DEC 2006 at 7:59pm
Patrocles Centurion Posts : 635 Joined: 22 JAN 2004 Location: US Status : Offline	haha, looks like another popularity contest between Star Wars and Star Trek! Question for SW and ST grogs... Do the SW Star Destroyers and DeathStars have shielding? If so, is it sufficient to prevent the Star Trek universe from transporting soldiers or bombs into their vessels? I think that would win the war quickly for the STU folks...just use the transporter to beam over a bomb into the engine bay of the Star Destroyer! haha
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#30 17 DEC 2006 at 2:40am
GDS Starfury General Posts : 16394 Joined: 26 MAY 2001 Location: 0, Starbase 10 Status : Offline	both SW and ST have shields, however they stop energy weapons and I havnt seen anything about them stopping kinetic weapons. when you get down to it ST and SW ships are lightly armored because they have shields. something like the Galactica or a B5 Omega destroyer does not and depends on thick armor to shrug of damage. size wise a ST ship is rather small compared to the Km minimum lengths of BSG, B5 and SW capital ships. only Galactica and B5 show any and lots of kinetic weapons. enery weapons are for wimps, commies and the french! nothing says you care like a C-fraction lump of tungsten punching through your battlewagon. ST also really doesnt have fighters which, IMHO, counts for a lot. any way you slice it ST would get pwned but then so does does SW. Im almost going to dig up and post the technical specs but I dont have any tape for my glasses.
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#31 17 DEC 2006 at 8:41am
LongBlade General Posts : 20586 Joined: 2 MAY 2003 Status : Offline	Starship Battles incorporated rules for kinetic missiles into its system. I can't remember exactly how they were applied, but it was definitely part of the game system. I am the Ancien Regime
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#32 18 DEC 2006 at 9:03pm
Seawolf Commander Posts : 1289 Joined: 25 JUL 2006 Status : Online	Numbers matter more than technology, which SW just doesn't have. It would be like WW1 technology vs us today....and then the Federation alone has 150 planets and near unlimited resources, while the Empire barely gets by while relying on slave labor. That site is also almost the worst thing I've ever seen on the internet. It makes me glad I hate everything in SW except the characters in the first two. The verdict on "Free Tibet" and Kosovo: [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/559/batistathumbsdown1gn3.gif[/img]
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#33 18 DEC 2006 at 10:14pm
marvingard Commander Posts : 2826 Joined: 13 APR 2007 Location: 0 Status : Offline	I have to admit that Galaxy Quest was actually a decent film. I recommend it. I might also add that Spaceball One would be a tough ship to beat... what with its "jamming" system and ludicrous speed.
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#34 18 DEC 2006 at 10:35pm
logan40k Centurion Posts : 330 Joined: 9 JAN 2004 Location: US Status : Offline	I know Starfleet Battles has drones, which are essentially cruise missiles. Essentially megaton nukes that blow up in proximity and release their energy, not actual kinetic weapons. If thats what you meant, LongBlade. In the rulebook (at least the old 1980's edition) is a funny story on how Drones got into the game in the first place. Sean
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#35 18 DEC 2006 at 11:32pm
GDS Starfury General Posts : 16394 Joined: 26 MAY 2001 Location: 0, Starbase 10 Status : Offline	oh do tell.....
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#36 19 DEC 2006 at 12:38am
Thogs Axe Centurion Posts : 260 Joined: 30 NOV 2005 Status : Online	"Thank God for the stardestroyer.net link" This site changed my life. Seawolf, you are insane. The Empire had many, many thousands of worlds, not just 150. And while the nancy Federation spent all it's money on cool architecture the Empire spent it on warships and bigger everything. There were what, 50 Enterprise-D's? There were thousands of Star Destroyers, all of them bigger than a Borg cube. Fighters out the wazoo, all of them as fast as the Enterprise. The Empirial ships move like slugs and can't aim for crap but they don't need to if they can pin you to a planet (of which you have only 150). About the only advantage ST ships have is accuracy and the transporter. You can do very nasty things with a transporter (assuming Imperial shields don't block it). A Phaser can do real damage and the accuracy is good. Too bad the rate of fire is so low. The longbow wasn't a viable weapon when it's competitor was using black powder and a guesstimate. Starfire was fun, until it became SFB without the complicated damage modeling. Actually, the damage modeling got complicated too, and eventually the game became a spreadsheet. Pity. Star Fleet Tactical Combat System was the best of the trek boardgames, with some modifications. I hated it at first, then realized that it really did track to the movies. Ships died fast if under heavy fire. And they had modeled full navies for all sides. That was before I was getting laid much. Generalissimo Thog Strategus of Illyricum, Dacia, Germania, Thrace, and the Crimea, Friend of the Avars, Bulgars, Poles, Latvians, Lapplanders, and Kotrigur Huns, and Chief Pimp of the Rhubachian Navy.
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#37 19 DEC 2006 at 8:14pm
Seawolf Commander Posts : 1289 Joined: 25 JUL 2006 Status : Online	I don't know what the size ratio is, but I doubt Star Destroyers are bigger than Borg Cubes. Aside from that, I think if you compare ships of similar size you can see which are better. The Millenium Falcon, for instance, can evade all of the Empire's best defenses.....but the Federation's Defiant class ships have more firepower, more range, equally good maneuverability, and can sustain more hits. Also I'd have to assume that the other species wouldn't just submit to the Empire. If this happened during the Klingon alliance, then cloaking technology would be on ST's side. A Star Destroyer can't even scan its own hull (ie the second movie), much less scan for cloaked ships. The more you think about it -- with space fascists, fighter groups, and stormtroopers -- the dominion war was kind of how this would have played out. The verdict on "Free Tibet" and Kosovo: [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/559/batistathumbsdown1gn3.gif[/img]
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#38 20 DEC 2006 at 12:34am
Uberhauskaninichen Centurion Posts : 465 Joined: 22 JUN 2006 Status : Offline	oh do tell..... Sounds like someone's jealous. By the way how many planets does the Colonial League or whatever it's called have? As for fighters, anyone want to 'splain what happens to a fighter that gets tractored and dragged at warp speed? I feel the only way to settle this argument once and for all is to get the actors who played the Ewoks (after all they beat the Empire) and the actors who have played Klingons (who have never managed to beat the Federation) and pit them in a winner takes all brawl. The victorious side in this fairly contested match could claim for evermore the title of better Collective Reciprocal Agreement of Planets or whatever for Lucas [> or Roddenberry [&o]. I'll even agree to moderate the contest so everything is fair and even. "I am a thirty second bomb. I am a thirty second bomb. Twenty-nine, twenty-eight..." Robert A. Heinlein [U]Starship Troopers[/U] 1959
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#39 20 DEC 2006 at 2:46am
GDS Starfury General Posts : 16394 Joined: 26 MAY 2001 Location: 0, Starbase 10 Status : Offline	As for fighters, anyone want to 'splain what happens to a fighter that gets tractored and dragged at warp speed? a Viper or a Starfury would whip that crap out of a X-Wing or Tie fighter or whatever the hell the federation uses for fighters. pivoting in 3 axis on the fly in a dogfight would be priceless.
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#40 20 DEC 2006 at 4:38am
MikeGER Commander Posts : 1664 Joined: 3 MAR 2005 Location: DE Status : Offline	Q,Frodo, Superman,....? ..no the Alien Brainsuckers from outta space (the Michael Mittermeier version of course [ ] ) are the winner. (neither Kirk nor Solo could resist and Vader starts to breath heavy [ ]) come on, how preschool retarded is the comparison of Fantasy worlds... its only funny if J.Seinfeld is arguing with George about it while siting in the Dinner waiting for Elaine.... lets hope the license of Star Trek and Star Wars will never come into the hand of one company and we never have to see an annoying b-movie "ST vs. SW" (and its easy to set up, they just let one Star Wars fleet get caught in some kind of 'cosmic-accident-supernova-blackhole-secret weapon-missfire mumbo-jumbo' and thrown into the Trek-world when and whererever they want ... add some 3rd rate CGI and a cameo of Shatner or his kidney-stone, whatever comes cheaper, and some less known starving StarWars actor and they are ready to roll)
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#41 20 DEC 2006 at 9:17am
Uberhauskaninichen Centurion Posts : 465 Joined: 22 JUN 2006 Status : Offline	they just let one Star Wars fleet get caught in some kind of 'cosmic-accident-supernova-blackhole-secret weapon-missfire mumbo-jumbo' and thrown into the Trek-world when and whererever they want ... add some 3rd rate CGI and a cameo of Shatner or his kidney-stone, whatever comes cheaper, and some less known starving StarWars actor and they are ready to roll That's a great idea! May I also suggest adding one of the more popular Star Trek plot devices, you know the one where they get caught in a timewarp back to Germany circa the 1940s. "I am a thirty second bomb. I am a thirty second bomb. Twenty-nine, twenty-eight..." Robert A. Heinlein [U]Starship Troopers[/U] 1959
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#42 20 DEC 2006 at 10:43pm
Fallschirmjäger Commander Posts : 2718 Joined: 31 JUL 2005 Location: NZ Status : Offline	I would have to say star wars easily,look at there weapons and spacecraft,and even the imperial forces alone looks like the could take over the whole federation and the aliens they fight sometimes,but add the jedis etc.. and they seem even stronger too. Fallschirmjäger
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#43 20 DEC 2006 at 10:58pm
Jim_LineofDeparture Commander Posts : 1451 Joined: 5 OCT 2006 Status : Online	Just seeing this thread made me grow a pocket protector. Jim Werbaneth [link=http://www.jimwerbaneth.com/lod]OnLine of Departure[/link] [link=http://www.jimwerbaneth.com/wargames]Wargames by Jim Werbaneth[/link]
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#44 4 JAN 2007 at 9:21pm
Seawolf Commander Posts : 1289 Joined: 25 JUL 2006 Status : Online	Hey, not all Trek fans are basement dwellers ya know [sm=hypno2.gif] This was pretty interesting and on topic: [link=http://www.merzo.net/]http://www.merzo.net/[/link] Apparently a Star Destroyer is pretty big (1600m), but still is using a type 3 phaser at best. The verdict on "Free Tibet" and Kosovo: [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/559/batistathumbsdown1gn3.gif[/img]
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#45 4 JAN 2007 at 10:08pm
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	ORIGINAL: GDS_Starfury As for fighters, anyone want to 'splain what happens to a fighter that gets tractored and dragged at warp speed? a Viper or a Starfury would whip that crap out of a X-Wing or Tie fighter or whatever the hell the federation uses for fighters. pivoting in 3 axis on the fly in a dogfight would be priceless. All else aside, I have to agree here. All the SW and ST small fighting craft fly like they are still in atmo...no thrust vectoring at all. Colonial Vipers and Raptors would dance around them and eat their lunch. Now throw in the short-legged FTL drives on the Raptors and build more 'Blackbird' style stealth fighters and the fight would be realy unfair as the Colonial boys (and girls) blip in and out at random points while firing away... Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#46 5 JAN 2007 at 12:18am
e4_demoteable Centurion Posts : 183 Joined: 5 JUN 2006 Status : Offline	ok, let me start off by saying that i have religiously watched every good, bad and indifferent sci fi show or movie put out since long before my time. i even watched battlefield earth more than once. read the book years back. that being said, you guys really need to find some willing company. really! and nothing green, blue or claiming to be a princess on the run either.
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#47 7 JAN 2007 at 11:48am
Jim_LineofDeparture Commander Posts : 1451 Joined: 5 OCT 2006 Status : Online	I was actually thinking of writing an article on how the Galactic Republic was weak, lumbering, missed abortion of a political entity, lurching its way to destruction, and that the Empire was an inevitability. Take a look at the size of the Senate: No wonder nothing of any value got done at the end, except to sow the seeds of its own destruction. The Jedi are even worse. Mace Windu says something about how they're not soldiers or policemen, but keepers of the peace. Well, how the hell are you going to keep the keep? Harsh words? Jedi mind games that people will eventually detect, resent, and hate you for? And if force has no role, what are you idiots doing invoking The Force all the time, and carrying light sabers? Duhhh?!?!!? Finally, they make one braindead, flatline decision after another. They take in Anakin Skywalker, but don't protect his mom. What the hell is that, respect for slavery? If they'd only offered some protection and let her live out the rest of her life in peace and security, he never would have felt the kind of rage that lead to his becoming Darth Vader. Just the doubt that she was safe made him uncertain. A little investment in a nice little house someplace, with a garden, and a couple of bodyguards would preserved the Republic and the Jedi Order. The second is a commitment to celibacy. Maybe it works for aliens, but it's definitely problematic for people. At the very least, some Jedi Archbishop would have had to sell off temples to pay the legal settlements from when Jedi Knights took advantage of the apprentices. The Jedi would attract way too many robe-lifting wierdos. At worst, the one guy who could have saved them married in secret, thereby breaking a completely stupid, self-destructive law, and again making him resent the cost of membership. They let his mom get raped and killed by sand creatures, then try to keep him and his girlfriend apart, and then they wonder why Anakin gets mad as hell? Not to mention having a nickname like "Annie." The Federation has its share of idealism, but it works. And the Federation has a Star Fleet that has a commitment to keeping the peace, and sends out battleships to make sure that it stays that way. It is susceptible to subversion, as The Undiscovered Country showed, but the naughty people all got caught in the end, so it's all good. From a political scientist's perspective, and that's where my formal education is, the most realistic future reality I think is Babylon 5. It shows that people have good and bad, and that even the good people can serve a bad cause honorably (there were honorable officers in EarthForce when President Clark ran the show). In Star Wars, diversity was a bunch of funny-looking puppets playing bad jazz in a bar. In Star Trek, it was relatively unimportant, as the institutions of the Federation transcended species, and diversity mattered mainly during sex. It could be extremely superficial. In Babylon 5, religion is important, and everyone has a religious identity, including the agnostic Garibaldi. There were flawed people who made bad decisions, drank too much, and a drug-addicted doctor. Matters of conscience and loyalty occured all the time. I liked Sheridan's rebel alliance too because it was an accurate representation of coalition warfare. Everybody brought something to the table, diversity again, and everyone brought a liability, one of the dark sides of diversity. But a healthy combination of idealism and self-interest made it stronger than Clark's dictatorship. Speaking of which, Londo Mollari spoke for generations of power-school theorists when he said that the universe was held together by three things: Matter, Energy, and Enlightened Self-Interest. If only he was a little more enlightened at the end... Disregarding technology and the flash factor, I'd put the Galactic Republic from Star Wars as too dumb to live, and the Empire as obviously vulnerable to subversion. The Star Wars reality is really, really weak, and no matter how cool the ships and weapons, regime change is the rule, not the exception. One wonders if the Republic reborn after the Emperor's demise would repeat the same dumb mistakes as the first incarnation. Plus, I dislike any universe in which nobody shoots Jar Jar Binks in the back of the head. The Federation is a nice neighborhood, a lot more stable, enlightened, and with capable of sustaining itself. The most realistic though, and the one that I strongly believe best represents the good and bad in human nature (sometimes dressed as aliens), is Babylon 5. It's also incredible thoughtful, and from a poli sci standpoint, my hands-down favorite. Jim Werbaneth [link=http://www.jimwerbaneth.com/lod]OnLine of Departure[/link] [link=http://www.jimwerbaneth.com/wargames]Wargames by Jim Werbaneth[/link]
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#48 7 JAN 2007 at 12:35pm
Thogs Axe Centurion Posts : 260 Joined: 30 NOV 2005 Status : Online	Yeah, Bab-5 has long been one of my favorites too. I even have an autographed picture of Londo. That's worth 5 Geek Points, at least. But aside from maybe the Shadows or the Elder Races I don't think the Bab-5 fleets would hold up well. The fighters are below SW or (especially) BSG standards. The capitol ships are lumbering monsters, though pretty well armed. I suspect they'd get eaten by a Star Destroyer or a Battlestar. Though in a paper-scissors-rock sorta way they might have the worst trouble with the Star Trek ships. The fighters would get blown out of the sky by phasors, and the ST capitol ships are so much faster and more manueverable that most of the B5 ships would never be able to get a shot off with their spinal mount armament, where most of their firepower resides. But the real terror would be Honor Harrington SD's. Stand off range, accelleration through the roof, effective shielding (impenetrable top and bottom), massively heavy broadsides, and fighters with stand-off weapons... Dude. Generalissimo Thog Strategus of Illyricum, Dacia, Germania, Thrace, and the Crimea, Friend of the Avars, Bulgars, Poles, Latvians, Lapplanders, and Kotrigur Huns, and Chief Pimp of the Rhubachian Navy.
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#49 8 JAN 2007 at 9:35pm
Seawolf Commander Posts : 1289 Joined: 25 JUL 2006 Status : Online	I never watched Babylon 5 but I wish I could (without having to buy it). I do agree with most of your well thought out post on the Federation. I know that a lot of times Roddenberry tried to hammer his views the way Lucas does, but was stopped by writers who apparently could say "No, that would suck." Hence the men's skirts disappearing after TNG season 1 (which had bad writing mostly anyway), unbelievably idealistic stuff being swept under or disproven, and so on. I heard that the writers for BSG are from Deep Space 9, but BSG I can't get into that much even though I try. It's just too depressing or something. (still, those are some of the best space fight scenes ever) The verdict on "Free Tibet" and Kosovo: [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/559/batistathumbsdown1gn3.gif[/img]
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#50 8 JAN 2007 at 10:36pm
Uberhauskaninichen Centurion Posts : 465 Joined: 22 JUN 2006 Status : Offline	From the horse's mouth and the movie Free Enterprise (quoted from IMDB): [Shatner just asked Robert why he started the fight[/i]] [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0458981/]Young Robert[/link][/b]: Well... it was something he said. [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/]Imaginary William Shatner[/link][/b]: What'd he say? [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0458981/]Young Robert[/link][/b]: You really don't want to know. [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/]Imaginary William Shatner[/link][/b]: I really do want to know! [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0458981/]Young Robert[/link][/b]: He said that Han Solo was cooler than Captain Kirk. [pause[/i]] [b][link=http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000638/]Imaginary William Shatner[/link][/b]: Kick the little fucker's ass. "I am a thirty second bomb. I am a thirty second bomb. Twenty-nine, twenty-eight..." Robert A. Heinlein [U]Starship Troopers[/U] 1959
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All Forums : [THE MILITARY ACADEMY] : Military History : Alternative History, Science Fiction & Fantasy > Who'd Win? Star Trek or Star Wars?

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Topic: Who'd Win? Star Trek or Star Wars?

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