| 12 SEP 2007 at 8:20pm |
SlawmanCenturion
Posts : 295
Joined: 12 DEC 2005
Status : Online |
ORIGINAL: bboyer66
Just type in whatever you want, dont have any accountability, dont back up your statements with facts, please give us more.
sounds just like the cia! or fema. apparently you didn't recognize the facetious nature of my post.
[font=verdana][size=2]If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat. --Jean Paul Sartre[/size][/font]
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 8:26pm |
StaggerwingColonel
Posts : 3317
Joined: 4 AUG 2007
Status : Offline |
ORIGINAL: Jarhead0331
ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Also: I dislike the idea of suicide. I'm still young and all that, by I prefer a "or die trying" attitude to a "suicide if needed" attitude. I'd guess Jarhead meant the same thing.
Ok...if you prefer it...
"mors tua vita mea"...Your death, my life...
To paraphrase Patton, as read by George C. Scott...
Wit Ye further, or how...?
-Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 8:31pm |
bboyer66Colonel
Posts : 4709
Joined: 17 APR 2006
Location: US, Pittsburgh PA
Status : Offline |
ORIGINAL: Slawman
ORIGINAL: bboyer66
Just type in whatever you want, dont have any accountability, dont back up your statements with facts, please give us more.
sounds just like the cia! or fema. apparently you didn't recognize the facetious nature of my post.
Oh I am sorry, my bad. There are so many people that actually still drink that cool aid, that I overreacted.
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 8:54pm |
SlawmanCenturion
Posts : 295
Joined: 12 DEC 2005
Status : Online | ORIGINAL: bboyer66
Oh I am sorry, my bad. There are so many people that actually still drink that cool aid, that I overreacted.
c'est la vie (pardon my french!)
for some reason, my sarcasm gets mistaken for being a nutjob very often.
great jim jones, reference! [&o]
oh, but back on topic, i find it highly unlikely that extremest islam is going to become dominant in the western world. the only reason anyone here would choose it is because of the perpetual disillusionment of the young underclasses and their search for anything to get back at "the man" and their parents. when such ideologies become the majority, they lose their kitsch and people that once supported their anti-establishment views gravitate toward the new anti-establishment. the nazi, communist, hippie, beatnick, punk and nearly every other "get the man" movement are all little more than a memory now, while "the man" just keeps marching on.
also, it seems that the world is becoming less religious anyway. i expect "conversion" to atheism to beat conversion to islam.
[font=verdana][size=2]If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat. --Jean Paul Sartre[/size][/font]
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:23pm |
GDS StarfuryGeneral
Posts : 16394
Joined: 26 MAY 2001
Location: 0, Starbase 10
Status : Offline | To paraphrase Patton, as read by George C. Scott...
quoted for truth!
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:25pm |
bayonetbrantColonel
Posts : 7052
Joined: 18 MAR 2007
Status : Offline | ORIGINAL: Flitcraft
ORIGINAL: bboyer66
I would have been like, point me to Mecca and give me a carpet.
bboyer, thanks for the best laugh I've had today.
P.S. Anyone an Eddie Izzard fan? This remind you of the "Cake or Death" bit?
"Well, we're [i]out[/i] of cake. We didn't know there'd be such a rush."
My wife and I [i]LOVE[/i] that performance. We've got the DVD, which is both longer, and a bit racier, than the TV special they made it from.
Check out GrogNews for wargaming / mil news.
http://grognews.blogspot.com
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:28pm |
bayonetbrantColonel
Posts : 7052
Joined: 18 MAR 2007
Status : Offline | ORIGINAL: Slawman
the average iraqi civilian has much more firepower (according to the CIA, anyway) than a stadium full of sports fans
I guess that depends... are we talking a race at Darlington? Alabama home football game? Compton high school game?
Check out GrogNews for wargaming / mil news.
http://grognews.blogspot.com
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:33pm |
Ursa MaiorCenturion
Posts : 335
Joined: 9 FEB 2006
Status : Online | ORIGINAL: Slawman
c'est la vie (pardon my french!)
for some reason, my sarcasm gets mistaken for being a nutjob very often.
great jim jones, reference! [&o]
oh, but back on topic, i find it highly unlikely that extremest islam is going to become dominant in the western world. the only reason anyone here would choose it is because of the perpetual disillusionment of the young underclasses and their search for anything to get back at "the man" and their parents. when such ideologies become the majority, they lose their kitsch and people that once supported their anti-establishment views gravitate toward the new anti-establishment. the nazi, communist, hippie, beatnick, punk and nearly every other "get the man" movement are all little more than a memory now, while "the man" just keeps marching on.
Yep. The basic idea is 'Whatever just let me oppose the establishment.'
also, it seems that the world is becoming less religious anyway. i expect "conversion" to atheism to beat conversion to islam.
Au contraire. []
IMHO you are wrong in this area. British youth is turning to religion again after their parents' atheism, and the same can be said for most countries, problem is that the 'faith of choice' is either a sect or islam, since the conventional religions are not seen as 'progressive' enough. This world is a more troubled place than the Cold War's and not only in islam countries people turn to fundamentalism to find answer to their problems.
Ursa Maior
"Not without incident."
Equilibrium
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:39pm |
KidCommander
Posts : 1203
Joined: 18 JAN 2006
Location: US, FL
Status : Offline |
ORIGINAL: Keunert
what's your scenario kid?
I started on my response to your question and had written a few paragraphs. I wanted to make sure I got my facts correct so I was doing some research when I came across this article - http://islamic-fundamentalism.info/chIV.htm
It does a better job than I could do of explaining what is going on.
Here are some quotes from Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini I was going to use in my response.
"This is not a struggle between the United States and Iran. It is a struggle between Islam and the infidels." 1
, "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the unit of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world."2
1. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948624,00.html?promoid=googlep TIME Magazine Posted Dec. 3, 1979
2. Robert Spencer, Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest-Growing Faith
If I’m not mistaken there are currently 22 countries around the world that are having major problems with the Muslims in their country.
Recognize this scenario? Immigrate in large numbers to anther country. Instead of assimilating into that country, set up an enclave and demand your rights to live and worship as you please. Next, complain about how unfair the government is treating you because of your religion. Then demand autonomy for your little enclave and if you don’t get it, start up a liberation army. Last, declare your independence and then start the whole process over again.
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| 12 SEP 2007 at 9:52pm |
bboyer66Colonel
Posts : 4709
Joined: 17 APR 2006
Location: US, Pittsburgh PA
Status : Offline | ORIGINAL: Kid
ORIGINAL: Keunert
what's your scenario kid?
I started on my response to your question and had written a few paragraphs. I wanted to make sure I got my facts correct so I was doing some research when I came across this article - http://islamic-fundamentalism.info/chIV.htm
It does a better job than I could do of explaining what is going on.
Here are some quotes from Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini I was going to use in my response.
"This is not a struggle between the United States and Iran. It is a struggle between Islam and the infidels." 1
, "Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the unit of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world."2
1. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948624,00.html?promoid=googlep TIME Magazine Posted Dec. 3, 1979
2. Robert Spencer, Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest-Growing Faith
If I’m not mistaken there are currently 22 countries around the world that are having major problems with the Muslims in their country.
Recognize this scenario? Immigrate in large numbers to anther country. Instead of assimilating into that country, set up an enclave and demand your rights to live and worship as you please. Next, complain about how unfair the government is treating you because of your religion. Then demand autonomy for your little enclave and if you don’t get it, start up a liberation army. Last, declare your independence and then start the whole process over again.
What about that Christian guy on the religious channel telling me not to listen to Led Zeppelin? As far as I know there has been no Zeppelin bashing on the Islamic front, so maybe it wont be so bad when the Islamic radicals take over the U.S. .
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 12:54am |
jacknastyfaceCommander
Posts : 1945
Joined: 4 MAR 2004
Location: CA, BC
Status : Offline | ORIGINAL: Kid
Recognize this scenario? Immigrate in large numbers to anther country. Instead of assimilating into that country, set up an enclave and demand your rights to live and worship as you please. Next, complain about how unfair the government is treating you because of your religion. Then demand autonomy for your little enclave and if you don’t get it, start up a liberation army. Last, declare your independence and then start the whole process over again.
How about this scenario - Immigrate to another country, embrace the social and intellectual freedom, take any job that you can get because the local governments don't recongize your education, suffer prejudice and hatred because you look different, wear different clothing or attend a different church, and then watch aghast as your kids eschew the traditions of your culture and get tattoos and wear makeup and hip-huggers and listen to Justin Timberlake and tell you they don't want to marry the nice boy/girl from the mosque because they suspect they won't support their decision to be a professional accountant/lawyer/basketball player/rock star and by the way mom/dad this isn't the old country, things are different here and where's my iPOD and I don't care if Starbucks isn't [i]halal[/i] during Ramadan.
By the way, I think the scenario YOU quote is precisely how the Brits colonized N. America, Australia, etc...
Karma's funny that way.
Jack Nastyface
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 1:54am |
KirksoneCenturion
Posts : 23
Joined: 12 NOV 2005
Status : Online | If and when the United States withdraws from Iraq. The world will continue just as it continued when America withdrew from Vietnam in the early 70's. As the war in Iraq will just continue with a civil war as that country will dissolve into seperate states. American prestige will take a dive but in a few years it will just be another conflict for historians and war gamers to debate the what ifs and ponder over. And it is quite tiresome to read the same old argument all Muslims are the enemy has no one learned anything. Please. it's nothing like the Second world war as it's a conflict of faiths not nations. Theres no Hitler and no coming storm.
"time is the fire in which we burn"
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 2:34am |
KeunertCommander
Posts : 2364
Joined: 22 MAR 2006
Status : Offline | switzerland has since the balkan wars in the 90ties a grown islamic population, plus 300'000 islamic immigrants (mostly albanian and bosnian) on 7mio total population. but there are no religious problems so far. they seem to lose interest in their believe. we do have problems with immigration, language etc but no religious extremists.
in germany with this huge turk popultaion goes the same as far as i know: the religion is the least problematic part of integration in most cases.
nuts:
Islam was born disrespecting other religions and using violence to force people to convert.
christianity was the end of millions of indigen people. islam on the other knew at the time this millet thing, allowing 2/3 of the osman empire to have another believe. nowadays things are different but i would say that we were by far the most succesfull conquerors.
I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect. Oscar Wilde
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 3:33am |
Ursa MaiorCenturion
Posts : 335
Joined: 9 FEB 2006
Status : Online |
Islam was born disrespecting other religions and using violence to force people to convert.
Apart from this being true for ALL montheistic religions (judaism -> check the Old testament, christianity see the middle ages etc.) is a huge oversimplification. Even people who claim to have read and studied the Koran state such nonsenses. While in itself it is quite selfcontradictory about violence, regarding issues such as 'ahl al kitab' = the people of the book, namely chirstians, jews, and magi (zoroastrians) it is clearly tolerant. My country was occupied for 150 yrs by the turks and we are still christians. Serbs, greeks were occupied for some 400-500 years and they are still orthodox chirstian. The descendants of the ancient greek cities in Asia Minor (currently Turkey) lived peacefully in the place ihnabited by them for 2000 yrs, when Kemal Atatürk (not exatly a moslem fundamentalist) drove them out.
So this huntingtonian BS is unacceptable in thinking circles. While obviously there is a militant interpretation of the islam (salafites, or extremist shiites) it is clearly not true for the faith as a whole.
Ursa Maior
"Not without incident."
Equilibrium
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 5:56am |
paweljCommander
Posts : 2866
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Location: UK, London
Status : Offline | Can you image the utter destruction and havoc that will ensue when "they" try to stop the Superbowl, an NHL final, NASCAR or any Tottenham Hotspurs game?
Chritian fundementalists try to make Superbowl halftime show boring.
"...One Nation, Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All."
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 7:43am |
OstfrontCenturion
Posts : 169
Joined: 13 JUN 2007
Status : Online |
ORIGINAL: Keunert
christianity was the end of millions of indigen people. islam on the other knew at the time this millet thing, allowing 2/3 of the osman empire to have another believe. nowadays things are different but i would say that we were by far the most succesfull conquerors.
When I look at the beginnings of Islam, I see a lot of wars and battles. Starting at the oasis of Badr when the Prophet Muhammad guarantees of instant admission to paradise for anyone slain in the service of Islam won them a resounding victory over a much larger Meccan force. Muhammad's record of unrelenting triumph on the battlefields and in the hearts of the people are way beyond impressive. This would continue on after the Prophet passed away with victories at Dathin, Ajnadayn,Yarmuk, Al-Qadisiya, Jafula, Heliopolis, Nihavand and the list goes on and on. It would only be when infighting between themselves and the battles at Constantinople, Poitiers, and Talas (against Tang China) would stop there expansion for a while. But I'll admit that it is debatable whether it was because of their motivation to spread their religion or to become wealthier that made these conquest possible.
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 8:12am |
SamaelCenturion
Posts : 522
Joined: 16 APR 2007
Status : Online | ALL religion is bad. Without exception.
[i]"Childrens do learn"[/i] - George W. Bush
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 8:30am |
Ursa MaiorCenturion
Posts : 335
Joined: 9 FEB 2006
Status : Online | At least for atheists. []
Ursa Maior
"Not without incident."
Equilibrium
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 8:47am |
ShadCenturion
Posts : 870
Joined: 5 NOV 2006
Status : Online | I've always liked the word "atheist" and derivations thereof as it represents a weak sort of paradox:
By definition, an atheist doesn't believe in a God. But the word atheist is just "theist" (one who believes) with the prefix "a" - in other words, someone who does not believe in God cannot describe themselves without mentioning God. But if there is no God - as they believe - why are they using it as a root word to describe themselves?
In other words, atheists deserve a new word, wholly divested from theism or theist or what have you, to call themselves. Why not flip the roles around? Atheists become the default measurement, and anyone who does not believe in "nothing" (and therefore religious) becomes an "a" - _____ .
[link=http://www.drewsjournal.com/]Panzer Grenadier Headquarters[/link]
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 8:56am |
Ursa MaiorCenturion
Posts : 335
Joined: 9 FEB 2006
Status : Online | For me unbeliever is definitely not polite.
Ursa Maior
"Not without incident."
Equilibrium
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 9:39am |
SamaelCenturion
Posts : 522
Joined: 16 APR 2007
Status : Online | Religion is NOT the same as faith. Faith means [b]belief[/b], with an inherent element of uncertainty. It means "I believe in something higher than me, with whatever that entails".
Religion means certainty. It means "I KNOW I'm right, and if you're not with me, you're inferior to me". All religions are the same in that way, but they don't all take it to its illogical extreme and kill all who oppose them.
And I'm not an atheist, by the way. I have faith, but I'm not religious.
[i]"Childrens do learn"[/i] - George W. Bush
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| 13 SEP 2007 at 9:45am |
KidCommander
Posts : 1203
Joined: 18 JAN 2006
Location: US, FL
Status : Offline |
ORIGINAL: jacknastyface
ORIGINAL: Kid
Recognize this scenario? Immigrate in large numbers to anther country. Instead of assimilating into that country, set up an enclave and demand your rights to live and worship as you please. Next, complain about how unfair the government is treating you because of your religion. Then demand autonomy for your little enclave and if you don’t get it, start up a liberation army. Last, declare your independence and then start the whole process over again.
How about this scenario - Immigrate to another country, embrace the social and intellectual freedom, take any job that you can get because the local governments don't recongize your education, suffer prejudice and hatred because you look different, wear different clothing or attend a different church, and then watch aghast as your kids eschew the traditions of your culture and get tattoos and wear makeup and hip-huggers and listen to Justin Timberlake and tell you they don't want to marry the nice boy/girl from the mosque because they suspect they won't support their decision to be a professional accountant/lawyer/basketball player/rock star and by the way mom/dad this isn't the old country, things are different here and where's my iPOD and I don't care if Starbucks isn't [i]halal[/i] during Ramadan.
By the way, I think the scenario YOU quote is precisely how the Brits colonized N. America, Australia, etc...
Karma's funny that way.
Jack Nastyface
First, for over 200 years people have successfully immigrated to the United States. The pattern is always the same for the successful ones. The first generation has a really hard time of it because of the things you mentions. The second generation has a slightly better time of it precisely because of the things you mention. By the third generation they are fully assimilated and are as well off as any American. If you don't want to assimilate DON'T MOVE HERE! If your way of live is so great, then STAY PUT and make your government do what you need them to do to have a good life!
As for your last comment, I point to that as proof that the strategy works and we need to counter act it, or we will go the way of the American Indian. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying what happened to the Native Americans I just don't want to go down the same path.
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