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Topic: A question on the Majestic 12
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All Forums : [THE GAMING PLAZA] : Game Development, Research & Modding > A question on the Majestic 12
| 3 SEP 2008 at 12:22pm | |
ghostryderColonel  Posts : 6951 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | I'm not even sure what the purpose of "game research" the forum section really means? But this seems the best place to ask.
As some may know I'm working on MJ12- which I hope will be a compelling game along the lines XCOM/JA mixture- the direction I want to take with MJ12 is a more realistic approach- not just in play mechanics but story and plot- so naturally I picked up on the internet lore regarding Majestic twelve.
The problem I'm having is the conspiracy theories seem to go on unendingly in various paths. Some take it to a point of claiming secret bases under eqyptian deserts or polar Icecaps but other take it to the point of JFK assasinations and cloned alien government officials.
I want to put a kind of Tom Clancy sort of revolving plot in the game- as in XCOM we had governments turning on the aliens side with no explanation as to why/how - it just happened- whereas my approach would to be flesh that out to a great degree to where missions just didn't revolve around alien encounters but you'd have to undertake Covert missions (possible with a different section/department of trained personal) to uncover and combat such activity.
I can think of a lot of ways to make the above interesting but for the life of me I'm having a real problem making heads or tails of the whole MJ12 conspiracy and exactly where to draw the line. The player is already suspending some disbelief already in regards to aliens but just how rediculous does one go with it before it get's too corny. I'm really trying to avoid corny here. Yet there has to be some concrete believeable reason why a entire segment of government powers would poney up with an alien race other they are alien clones from outer space.
My eyes have went oogles reading and googling all the internet trash on the subject. Perhaps someone familiar or that is willing to browse and read on it a bit can put it in more focus and sugest a reasonable cutoff point and/or suggest a general motive for the ebb and flow of keeping governments under your wing for funding as opposed to them siding with the Aliens in some believable way other than alien clones or mind control?
I know games and B movies are quick to offer shallow solutions but that's not the overall atmosphere I'm shooting for. I don't want 'planet 9 from outer space' as I'm trying for "Alien'. Yet if governments are going to turn something a litte more deep is certainly required.
The theories stay somewhat logical until you get to this stuff. They explain the abductions, the recent tech discoveries and even suggest Truman's goal was to land a treaty with them and we actually have one (whereas in the game that treaty is broken)- but then things go south.
Any ideas?
here's a few links- the FBI just closes the case as bogus -[link=http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/majestic.htm]http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/majestic.htm[/link]
this link goes in some detail-
[link=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread60567/pg1]http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread60567/pg1[/link]
I'll use this bit of course but the last lines get a little crazy-
[b]By 1955 it became obvious the aliens had deceived Eisenhower and had broken the treaty. Mutilated humans were being found along with mutilated animals all across the United States. It was suspected that the aliens were not submitting a complete list of human contacts and abductees to MJ-12 and it was suspected that not all abductees had been returned. The Soviet Union was suspected of interacting with them and this proved to be true. It was learned that the aliens had been and were then manipulating masses of people through secret societies, witchcraft, magic, the occult, and religion. After several Air Force combat air engagements with alien craft it also became apparent that our weapons were no match against them.
[/b]But this I think is a bit much:
[b][color=#cc0000]Kennedy Assassination[/color] At some point President Kennedy discovered portions of the truth concerning the drugs and the aliens. He issued an ultimatum in 1963 to MJ-12. President Kennedy assured them that if they didn't clean up the drug problem he would. He informed MJ-12 that he intended to reveal the presence of aliens to the American people within the following year and ordered a plan developed to implement his decision. President Kennedy was not a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and know nothing of "Alternative 2" or "Alternative 3". Internationally the operations were supervised by MJ-12 and in the Soviet Union by its sister organization. President Kennedy's decision struck fear into the hearts of those in charge. His assissination was ordered by the Policy Committee and the order was carried out by agents of MJ-12 in Dallas.
[/b]It doesn't stop there. It goes into the Nixon Watergate thing and in the end ends up something like this:
[b]Throughout our history the Aliens have manipulated and/or ruled the human race through various secret societies, religion, magic, witchcraft, and the occult. The Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are in complete control of the alien technology and are also in complete control of the nation's economy. Eisenhower was the last president to know the entire overview of the alien problem. Succeeding presidents were told only what MJ-12 and the Intelligence Community wanted them to know and believe me, it wasn't the truth. [/b][b]MJ-12 has presented each new president with a picture of a lost alien culture seeking to renew itself, build a home on this planet, and shower us with gifts of technology. In some cases the president was told nothing. Each president in turn has bought the story, or no story at all, hook line and sinker. Meanwhile innocent people continue to suffer unspeakable horrors at the hands of alien and human scientists who are engaged in barbarous research that would make even the Nazis look like sunday school children. As if that is not enough many people end up as food for the insatiable alien appetite for biological [/b][link=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread60567/pg1#][style="font-weight: 400; color: #d0d060! important; font-family: verdana,arial; position: static"][color=#d0d060][size=2][b]enzymes[/b][/size][/color][/link][b], glandular hormonal secretions, and blood. Many people are abducted and are sentenced to live with psychological and physical damage for the rest of their lives. In the documents I saw, 1 in 40 humans have been implanted with devices the purpose of which I have never discovered. The government believes that the aliens are building an army of human implants which can be activated and turned upon us at will. You should also know that to date we have not even begun to come close to parity with the aliens. Is this technology worth it? [/b][b]The conclusions are inescapable. [/b]
Then of course google another page and it goes in another direction:
[link=http://www.alienresistance.org/coopermj12.htm]http://www.alienresistance.org/coopermj12.htm[/link]
[font=verdana][size=2][b]The Conclusions Are Inescapable. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b](1) The secret power structure believes that, because of our own ignorance or by Divine Decree, planet Earth will self-destruct sometime in the near future. The-se men sincerely believe that they are doing the right thing in their attempt to save the human race. It is terribly ironic that they have been forced to take as their partner an alien race which is itself engaged in a monumental struggle for survival. Many moral and legal compromises were made in error and must be corrected and those responsible should be made to account for their actions. I can understand the fear and urgency that must have been instrumental in the decision not to tell the public. Obviously I disagree with this decision. Throughout history small but powerful groups of men have consistently felt that they alone were capable of deciding the fates of millions and throughout history have been wrong. This great nation owes its very existence to the Principles of Freedom and Democracy. I believe with all my heart that the United States of America cannot and will not succeed in any effort that ignores those principles. Full disclosure to the public should be made and we should proceed to save the human race altogether. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b](2) We are being manipulated by a joint human/alien power structure which will result in the total enslavement and or destruction of the human race. We must use any and every means available to prevent this from happening. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b](3) The government has been totally deceived and we are being manipulated by an alien power which will result in the total enslavement and/or destruction of the human race. We must use any and all means available to prevent this from happening. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b](4) Something else is happening which is beyond our ability to understand at this time. We must force disclosure of all the facts, discover the truth and act upon the truth. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b]In any case we MUST force disclosure of the truth or no matter what happens we will surely deserve it. The situation in which we find ourselves is due to our own actions or inaction's over the last 44 years. It is our own fault and we are the only ones who can change it. Through ignorance or misplaced trust we as a people have abdicated our role as the "watch dog" of our government. Our government was founded "of the people, for the people, and by the people". There was no mention or intent to ever abdicate our role and place our total trust in a handful of men who meet secretly and decide our fate for us. In fact the structure of our government was designed to prevent that from ever happening. If we had done our jobs as citizens this could never have happened. Most of us are completely ignorant as to even the most basic functions of our government. We have truly became a nation of sheep. Sheep are always eventually led to the slaughter. It is time to stand up in the manner of our forefathers and walk like men. I remind you all, that the Jews of Europe marched obediently to the ovens, after having been warned, believing all the while that the facts could not possibly be true. When the outside world was told of the holocaust occurring in Hitler's Europe it was not believed. I state here and now that Hitler was manipulated by these same aliens. [/b][/size][/font]
[font=verdana][size=2][b]I have brought you the truth as I know it. I do not care what you think of me. I have done my duty and no matter what fate lies in store for me, I can truly meet my maker with a clear conscience. I believe first in God. The same God my ancestors believed in. I believe in Jesus Christ and that he is my Saviour. I believe second in the Constitution of the United States of America as it was written and meant to work. I have given my oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, I intend to fulfil that oath. [/b][/size][/font]
And you can google another and another and it keeps veering to other conclusions. I need to reign it in and make some sense of it.
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| 3 SEP 2008 at 1:44pm | |
InsurgentCenturion  Posts : 375 Joined: 28 JUN 2008 Status : Online | |
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| 3 SEP 2008 at 2:05pm | |
ghostryderColonelPosts : 6951 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | thanks will look that stuff up-
I like the last line. I'll have to think of ways to approach that. I HAD a writer in Texas but I haven't heard from him in months. And I'm about finished on the A.I> and need to start formulating missions and flow so I can start building. I was hoping for a kind of discovery/then available approach. Akin to research.
I'm approaching research somewhat differently. In XCOM you researched and had equal weapons. I'd however assume in reality you'd have a subbar product- just as you see when a foreign country tries to copy one of our weapons. Been working on that flowchart.
I'd like to give it a realistic edge whenever possible. So for instance as the conspiracy claims there's different branches. Even if the player doesn't have complete control of those brances he should be aware of thier existance and function- therefore he\she won't be able to intercept an alien landing until they recieve contact from that devision the surrounding area is secured and so on to even conclude cover stories etc. so tracking the media will be a part and so on.
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| 3 SEP 2008 at 5:46pm | |
ghostryderColonelPosts : 6951 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | Hum seems all the info I find on Stanton Friedman is centered around the document and wether they are forgories or not- haven't found much past that- might have to buy that book and read it.
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| 4 SEP 2008 at 12:01am | |
InsurgentCenturionPosts : 375 Joined: 28 JUN 2008 Status : Online | |
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| 4 SEP 2008 at 10:56am | |
ghostryderColonelPosts : 6951 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | Well maybe I should look at the whole thing from a different perspective? Instead of looking for a theory behind a cencerted plot from a sole alien race perhaps competing agendas from different factions with different goals. Most of mj12 leads to such people like Bill Mier who purport to be in contact with several races with several motives.
His thesis along isn't enough as most of his stuff purports they just want us to sing and hold hands and love each other. XCOM was about a pre-invasion. Discovering the bases and stopping the aliens attempts - which as a whole was total invasion- not make us Docile.
In this vein one can find rather hostile encounter cases- some are rather shallow- at least to me but there's one case UFO's shot down two aircraft. The explanations seemed corny but the event itself could extract hostility in the least.
One interesting find was this -[link=http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/MJ-12_Technocratic.htm]http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/MJ-12_Technocratic.htm[/link]
The idea of Technocrats might be feasable as a force inside a government turning to the aliens side. It's an angle worth thinking about. A Technocratic force being able to totally sway governments seems quite a leap and I'd have to add some more convincing layers to the onion I think for it to be plausable.
Many of these UFOologists seem to accept these notions as forgone conclusions. It's why I have a hard time finding many of them believable. When they attempt to explain how it's possible their position is even more weak as the explanations lack depth and logic.
It may be the engineer in me but some of these explanations appear to me to be the ramblings of an uneducated middle age student. Their technically not only incorrect but some simply not possible.
The above case regarding the shot down jets for example purports the aliens had a super weapon. Well that alone got my attention- I'd want to include that in the game right? I was somewhat dissapointed however when I continued to read. This super weapon puportedly disolves and vaporizes only metallic objects- nothing elese- so essentially the 2 pilots saw thier jets simply come apart around them...one died and one lived so the article claims.
How the weapon worked according to the writer was suppersonic sound waves. (It only effects metalic objects via supersonic sound) not to mention one pilot lived. Hummm- how? Sure a parachute is made of nylon but surely the mechanisms that ACTIVATE it have mettalic objects. Furthermore isn't there jet fuel now travling alone said suspended pilot no longer contained in a tank- as well as plastic and composite objects- all now choatically traveling at a high rate of speed? And back to this 'supersonic' weapon- a race that gets past the speed of light to get here uses weapons that compared to that seem medevil in nature. You'd think they'd be way past sound- supersonic or not.
It reminds me of an incident I had with my mother. Now my mom has really went over the edge in regards to psychics and always urges me on visiits to go 'get reading'- one time I said what the hell I'll entertain her with the notion sice it's something she enjoys.
This day however they weren't doing readings but some sort of class where a group of people sit around said psychic while he goes into a trance- a purported 'spirit' takes over his body and speaks to all of us. Apparantly this is a weekly thing as this spirit talked quite a bit about the previous week and why the recording that was taken on the tape recorder was useless.
Well I had a real hard time not only swallowing this whole thing but had a hard time just sitting there not challenging some of this stuff-
First thing that got to me was this psychic - who was making quite the money at $50 a pop for each of us in room- was supposely taken over by a spirit that was an old Indian. Once the spirit took over I viewed on of the poorest portrayals of an Indian I had ever seen. She shuffled her knees, poorly spat out the 'me whitecloud...how" crap reminencent of some poor 1940 portrayal you see in an old black and white. Being a resident of Tucson for decades, quite familiar with indian tribe culture, mannerisms and speech- as well as having a little real hard history- this was simply one of the poorest scams I could have seen.
Worse- now this 'Indian Spirit' was insulting my schooling with her explanation of the tap recorder. "Too much energy speed up motor" nonesense. Being an engineer and KNOWING how electric motors work I simply could not swallow it. I don't care how much 'power' you give one- they always...and MUST...turn at the same RPM's. That's why we have pulleys and belts and gears.
I'm having the same problem here with a lot of this stuff. It's written and concluded in such shallow ways with so many holes I'm wondering how to plug a lot of this.
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| 4 SEP 2008 at 11:58am | |
InsurgentCenturionPosts : 375 Joined: 28 JUN 2008 Status : Online | |
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| 4 SEP 2008 at 5:00pm | |
ghostryderColonelPosts : 6951 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline | It's more along the JA vein map wise- not tiles - and as you recall there was a lot a RPG story type stuff there. It won't be too deep but the overhead control room- where you hire, do missions, have the geoscape- the ufoepida and so on will be other ways - but mostly it'll be about like JA2- there will be some dialouge when it's a main quest/story driven mission whereas other mission are more akin to the random ones generated ala XCOM style- as there has to be time for research, training, healing.
Overall the aim to draw the player in so I don't want it to be too over the rainbow - which quite frankly both titles go to somewhat- JA with the aliens in the cave and biff's 3 stooges style merch company- and XCOM especially later with the third title almost took a comic book turn.
I'm trying to stay more conventional so the player doesn't go..."that doesn't make sense"- which I did quite a bit with UFO: Extraterrestrials as if you could scrap a squady off your foot that was enough to bring him back to life kinda stuff. I'd rather do an x-files kind of approach. It should make sense at least on some level even if it's not explained fully.
My idea with the covert mission- when a player notices a country dropping funding levels he'd be able to do missions to counteract this befotre the country completely flipped. In xcom it was just a matter of keeping the skies clear with successful intercepts- I'd like a little more depth. Hence some story elements I can link to rouge parts of the government- capture a scientist or a particular character and interrogate them which would open another mission up and so on until the player was either successful or not- possibly because he 'guessed' the wrong course of action and choose the wrong tree of availble mission paths- and he'd either lose funding altogether- the country would flip and ultimately house an alien base that the player ultimately would have to destroy- or he'd win and get the funding back.
diffently going to take some work to sort out- but a wealth of info out there at least.
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