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| 29 OCT 2008 at 4:44pm |
KapitanHelmetCenturion
Posts : 8
Joined: 14 JAN 2005
Status : Online | I have just played one battle, I forget the name of the map but the one furthest to the right that has the first engagement in the 16 day campaign, 3 battles/'rows' down from the top of the map. I was attacking as Axis, AI defending.
I gave the defenders 3 AT guns as I had several assault guns coming in.
Some things I noticed:
1. US 57mm AT guns, in woods, out of sight of my two 8cm mortars. Range about 150-200m. As soon as they are spotted by my infantry, within 6 salvoes of my mortars they are destroyed (one of them took 4 shells to get a hit and be destroyed). This was a problem I thought had been resolved by the GJS mod. Basically, AT guns anywhere on a map can get wasted by mortars as soon as they are spotted... GJS dealt with this well iirc, and it took a lot more to destroy an AT gun with mortars.
2. An AT gun fired directly through two sets of smoke to destroy a Stug... fair enough maybe it just saw it... but I was surprised
3.Towards the end, the defending US has almost nobody left, there is a gun crew member with a pistol or rifle... I have a stug nearby but without LOS to him, so I send over two SG Sturm squads to finish off the crewman, there isn't a friendly command squad nearby but I figure they shouldn't have trouble. They approach, he starts firing his rifle (or maybe even a pistol), and one of the VG Sturm squads immediately surrenders (5 men, a friendly Stug behind them, destroyed enemy all around, battle going well). The other Sturm squad runs up next to the enemy and eventually kill him at point blank range. I've never seen that (a surrender for no apparent reason) happen before.
4. Vehicle movement seemed fine, except one Stug decided to rotate 360 degrees when in front of an enemy infantry man (one man), for no apparent reason... the old tank dance bug it seemed to me, but after one twirl and repeated orders he got bored of the dance and went back to firing.
The game looks fine overall, the above are just my observations after my very first battle
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| 31 OCT 2008 at 7:35pm |
StaggerwingColonel
Posts : 3317
Joined: 4 AUG 2007
Status : Offline | As I already have all of the CC games excepting the first what about this release would you say
makes it worth me spending forty bucks on this game as opposed to one I do not yet own? How
much of an improvement is it over CC V?
Wit Ye further, or how...?
-Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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| 1 NOV 2008 at 1:16pm |
combotCenturion
Posts : 467
Joined: 28 JAN 2009
Location: 0
Status : Online |
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5465
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| 1 NOV 2008 at 2:37pm |
KapitanHelmetCenturion
Posts : 8
Joined: 14 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Staggerwing
As I already have all of the CC games excepting the first what about this release would you say
makes it worth me spending forty bucks on this game as opposed to one I do not yet own? How
much of an improvement is it over CC V?
Well for me, for now, I would say that CC5 with all the mods is still the best CC... play the GJS campaign, version 4.4, and make some of the mods I think I posted ages ago (fixes to vehicle pathing which make it perfect, WHY is that still having problems in WaR?)... if not can post my play guidelines again for a campaign game two player.
What I find annoying is that by now, any new version of CC should have addressed ALL of my points above, and more. The game looks so dated... and they could do so much more now with available hardware.
I can't help the feeling that the same thing is being churned out with basically only the changes that modders have made previously for free... why isn't there a proper update to this game by now? Why doesn't it have the same sort of power as something like Supreme Commander? We could be controlling whole battalians on large maps, with dynamic zoom, in decent 3d... (give orders to platoons or even companies and have them do basically the right thing, and player can tweak orders for particular squads etc... all of that should be able to be done) and yet here I am moaning about a bug that existed in the game maybe TEN YEARS AGO.
If I play more of WaR and I find more of the same old bugs, there is no way I will be playing a campaign of it... what would be the point?
Sorry for the neg comments those who are loving it, but come on, when are these games going to get actual modern updates... and even failing that, what about even just FIXING THE BUGS... ? (tanks should never just spin around for no reason... and modifying SAI values in CC5 fixed that perfectly... so why is it still happening in new games?)
Maps are fine, sounds etc are fine... but again, previous modders have all done great on that front too.
Anyway, I am off to have my second battle, and hopefully not my last... !
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| 1 NOV 2008 at 5:29pm |
KapitanHelmetCenturion
Posts : 8
Joined: 14 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Just enjoyed another 3 battles, and didn't find anything bizarre which was good - tanks moved well, enemy AT guns in woods and even in the open put up surprisingly stiff resistance... so maybe I was lucky with the first 3 AT guns destroyed rapidly by mortars (and they were in the open).
Am looking forward to playing against human opponent... don't want to play AI too much as it will make me very lazy (the AI as ever not great, the last one for example he massed his troops in the open, crawling around a field all under fire, surrounded by buildings and woods either side which he just wasn't using).. after awhile it gets too sick
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| 3 NOV 2008 at 11:39am |
GDS StarfuryGeneral
Posts : 16394
Joined: 26 MAY 2001
Location: 0, Starbase 10
Status : Offline | Ive always found that the tank dance was more an issue with map coding then AI. on the map you had a dance was it a redone stock map or something new?
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| 16 NOV 2008 at 9:31pm |
atmordicaCenturion
Posts : 2
Joined: 15 NOV 2008
Location: 0
Status : Online | Good Evening,
This is my first post since joining this evening. I am glad that I am not the only one to note and be puzzled by what you have referred to as the "tank dance". I have found it most frustrating to be in a single-player scenario, "get the drop" on an enemy tank, and watch in total frustration as my vehicle yaws back and forth, vainly searching for the target I selected, only to be destroyed by the target without my tank getting off the first shot! I have lost more scenarios than I can count because of this phenomena. Is there a pacth or mod that addresses this peculariarity in the game? I refer to all of the variants that I possess (CC2,3,4,and 5)?
Regards,
Allen the Coastie
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| 7 DEC 2008 at 8:26am |
DazCenturion
Posts : 1
Joined: 7 DEC 2008
Status : Online | laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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| 7 DEC 2008 at 9:15am |
GDS StarfuryGeneral
Posts : 16394
Joined: 26 MAY 2001
Location: 0, Starbase 10
Status : Offline | tank dancing isnt so much a problem with the AI as it is with how a map is coded and the limitations in the way Close Combat maps can be made. a CC map is a 3d image converted to a 2d playing field that retains a 3d environment. all CC maps are made up of 3 files. you have the image file, elements file and elevation file. the elements file is what tells the game whats on the map like trees, buildings, rocks, roads or anything else. the elevation file tells the game the elevation of that section of the map (duh). what most of you dont know is how this is coded into the game and why it effects pathfinding. well heres why...
the element and elevation files are broken down into 5x5 pixel squares with 25 squares makeing a grid square.
example 1:
[image]http://home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/tools/cc2MapMaker.jpg[/image]
example 2:
[image]http://www.closecombat.org/MapMaking/nakedfoot/image6.jpg[/image]
now as you can see this forces a map maker to usevery linear methods when a map is coded and the problem is that many of the roads, paths and whatnot are not linear at all. a sloppy map will have element squares joining at the corners and not have a wide enough area for the vehicle to pass. or you could have a radical change in elevation at the edge of a road that points into what looks like and should be an open road. then there are the impassible element squares, like bocage, that meet at right angles to a road square. sometimes you can even get a mistaken element square, say a large rock, that sits right in the middle of a road and now the AI cant decide how to get around it. this is where the tank starts its 'dance'.
over the course of time mapmakers have paid more attention and overcome these problems by simply designing better maps and really paying attention to how they get coded. this is why I asked if the current problems happened on new maps or the old stock maps.
the best way to work around this is simply to use the waypoint options for vehicles and use the right mouse key to look at every area you want to move across.
if a more detailed description is needed tell me []
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| 13 DEC 2008 at 2:11pm |
KapitanHelmetCenturion
Posts : 8
Joined: 14 JAN 2005
Status : Online | @coastiecw04
For CC5, you can solve the dancing (and a lot more besides) by getting hold of the tools to modify the files that control how the vehicles behave... I did this many years ago, I forget how right now, maybe I can post a modified set to you, but yes for me it changed the game from unplayable to being one of my favourite wargames (despite the remaining blatant and outrageous bugs that they didn't fix for whatever reason).
@GDS_Starfury
Thanks for the description, makes sense... I don't see any excuse for the original map makers to get this wrong though... they should, after all, have been aware of the issues
Not sure where I saw the dance... I've now played WaR a lot more and have only seen a few dances or pathing problems, from your description it sounds like they are due to map design.
Some other bugs I have seen (2-player, 16 day grand campaign):
1. A german and allied BG swapped map locations (I can find out which ones if this info can get back to the dev team) ! They should have had a battle on the US-owned map... seems they drove right past each other
2. Buildings sometimes seem to not get in the way of direct fire of any kind... squads on the inside of even large buildings take a lot of hits from rifle fire coming from outside the building at range and "through" the building, as though there are no intervening walls.
3. More of a question... Stug III G at point blank on a Sherman (75)... gives me a "I can't hurt that"... is that expected? (Maybe it is, it is an assault gun and not a TD after all, but still I seem to remember Stugs being useful against Shermans in CC5).
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| 14 DEC 2008 at 7:58pm |
GDS StarfuryGeneral
Posts : 16394
Joined: 26 MAY 2001
Location: 0, Starbase 10
Status : Offline | I dont mean to try and give map coders an out but, having done my fair share of maps I can say that dealing with a few thousand element squares can be mind numbing to say the least. add some time sensitive aspects to the job of making these maps for a release date and I can excuse the occasional error. I cannot and will not excuse that same error on custom maps. I spent a lot of time drawing, painting and coding those SOBs and with no time pressure theres no excuse.
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