| 16 NOV 2009 at 9:15pm |
James SterrettCenturion
Posts : 251
Joined: 15 SEP 2006
Status : Online | You can avoid the blinding effect if you fire while using the thermal sight. You still have to be zoomed in to fire. Search in wide view, get close, N to zoom, launch while you refine the shot.
The painful part of the TOW is how much slower it travels than HEAT and Sabot rounds coming back.
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| 16 NOV 2009 at 9:40pm |
Gary OwenCenturion
Posts : 117
Joined: 2 AUG 2002
Status : Offline | An old demonstration video of some Bradley gunnery to include a couple missile engagements and a few 25mm rounds to the berm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_tJOl3Tfvw
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| 16 NOV 2009 at 11:31pm |
jacknastyfaceCommander
Posts : 1945
Joined: 4 MAR 2004
Location: CA, BC
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By toonces
I can't wait until you start playing MiG Alley Ace, and get me motivated to get into it despite its horrible, dated graphics.
Do you really mean "Mig Alley Ace" as in the old C-64 game by Atari, released in 1985, or do you mean "Mig Alley" by Rowan circa 1999? It just so happens I've got the latter and was actually contemplating re-installing this weekend...
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| 16 NOV 2009 at 11:41pm |
tooncesCommander
Posts : 2322
Joined: 21 MAR 2006
Status : Offline | Ummm. Latter, as in "I'm totally trashed tonight".
On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GRekITfRc
Like, I already own the game. I've already spent the @125. I Just want to WANT to play it now.
"I am always fondling my nut sack, just to be safe. " - bboyer66
"It's like Mount and Blade got together with Total War and had a game baby." - Bison36 on Real Warfare Northern Crusades
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 2:13am |
destraexGlobal Moderator
Posts : 6230
Joined: 8 MAY 2001
Location: AT, 3D
Status : Offline | toonces this game is like study..... literally. It takes a lot to get into. I must admit I liked it but did not get into it because I had no company among friends with it. It was just a bridge too far for them, left em behind in both price and complication.
But you read the manual enough u will want to play it.
Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 7:07am |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By James Sterrett
You can avoid the blinding effect if you fire while using the thermal sight. You still have to be zoomed in to fire. Search in wide view, get close, N to zoom, launch while you refine the shot.
The painful part of the TOW is how much slower it travels than HEAT and Sabot rounds coming back.
Thanks, James!
---
BTW, for those reading along James and Gary go way, way back with the SB series. Good folks to ask questions of. James did some early classic scenario development and Gary has long been a force behind the evolution of SB and training materials for students/players.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 7:32am |
Bison36Colonel
Posts : 6360
Joined: 31 MAR 2009
Location: US, Sweet Air of Freedom
Status : Offline | Another classy AAR going Markshot. I'm really liking the screenshots.
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations - James Madison
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 7:37am |
bboyer66Colonel
Posts : 4709
Joined: 17 APR 2006
Location: US, Pittsburgh PA
Status : Offline | All this is bringing back flashbacks of being an M1 gunner. Engagements with your GAS site are easy if the target is within battle site range. 1200M for Sabot, 800 for HEAT. The rounds have a flat trajectory to that point so all you have to do is put the crosshair on the target. Anything beyond those ranges and you have to estimate the range using the mills in the site.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 7:58am |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | On a hill top waiting to bushwack some suckers.
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/sb61.jpg[/img]
First blood is drawn and it's time to get out of dodge before their wrath is felt.
Fall back!
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/sb63.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/sb62.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/sb64.jpg[/img]
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 6:35pm |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | I have a gaming keyboard. I have mainly just used the programmable keys.
It has an LCD display, but I leave it running a clock.
Finally, I have use for one of its applets. Dual count down timers. I have programmed a 2 minutes and 1 minutes count down timers with an audible warning.
Now, instead of trying to remember the mission time and when I must bug out. I just hit count down timer when the enemy has spotted me. At 2 minutes, it is time to go. If I am feeling exceptionally lucky, I go for another 1 minute, before displacing.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 6:39pm |
James SterrettCenturion
Posts : 251
Joined: 15 SEP 2006
Status : Online | Originally Posted By destraex
toonces this game is like study..... literally. It takes a lot to get into. I must admit I liked it but did not get into it because I had no company among friends with it. It was just a bridge too far for them, left em behind in both price and complication.
But you read the manual enough u will want to play it.
Another way to look at it: SB is at least four games in one. You do need to be at least familiar with each before moving to the next one, though not necessarily an expert.
1) Gunner: Learn all the intricacies of putting rounds onto the target. SB is explicitly built with the intent that a good gunner in SB should be able to have an intelligent conversation about tank gunnery with a real tank gunner. You won't learn the muscle memory of where the switches are, but you should be able to get the concepts down cold.
Side note: I suspect this is where a lot of people get confused and stop, because the gunnery is complex. You need to understand the gunnery to do the rest -- but you do not need to master it. That said, there are people who love this part and never want to go any further.
2) Tank Commander: Tactically maneuver and position your tank. Slew the gunner onto targets. Keep the tank alive while still killing the enemy. In all honesty, this is where my real interest in SB begins: this is where you start to worry about the wider tactical picture and how you fit into it.
3) Platoon Commander: Much like tank commander, but now you need to worry about 3 or 4 vehicles (and possibly infantry) in addition to your own. This is a more complex problem, not least because you need to keep in your head the tactical implications of the position of vehicles you do not currently occupy. You'll start to get the hang of creating routes and calling for offmap fire support.
4) Company Commander: IMO, this is where SB's tracks really hit the road. You need to tactically maneuver a force of several platoons, often composed of both armor and mech infantry, in order to accomplish the mission, while integrating fire support and making sure your action fit the actions of neighboring units. You will often be out of sight of most of your force, trying to track them on the map, issue orders, and keep an eye on the part of the fight you can see.
In addition to the gunnery education intent, SB was built with the explicit intent of being a vehicle through company (with battalion at a stretch) mechanized warfare training simulation. As Markshot noted, I have my bias on this, but I believe it's the best mech/armor sim out there. The closest competition is probably VBS2 (military version of ARMA II), which is a better infantry and combined air/land simulation, but IMO not as good as SBPro when dealing with armor.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 6:59pm |
destraexGlobal Moderator
Posts : 6230
Joined: 8 MAY 2001
Location: AT, 3D
Status : Offline | I actually thought the gunnery was great fun, the las range, combined with lead calc and ammo type. In a changing situation with moving targets this can get tricky and is where the good gunners excel.
Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 9:12pm |
James SterrettCenturion
Posts : 251
Joined: 15 SEP 2006
Status : Online | Absolutely true about the required skill -- just not one I'm as captivated by. I'm certainly not trying to run down the people who prefer it!
The key point there is that there are several fairly different experiences in SB. Several times, I've run into people who were turned off by the gunnery, but who really liked some other angle of the game.
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 11:50pm |
DA 1775Centurion
Posts : 761
Joined: 24 MAY 2009
Status : Online | "Now, instead of trying to remember the mission time and when I must bug out. I just hit count down timer when the enemy has spotted me. At 2 minutes, it is time to go. If I am feeling exceptionally lucky, I go for another 1 minute, before displacing. "
That is so very exciting !
Beautiful !
There is something fabulous about firing thirty caps or so as fast as the they can be loaded, though. Burned white boot leather, smokin' shells too hot to stand on. Throw 'em on the floor, throw 'em out the hatch, and load some more ! Smoke everywhere, nostrils wide, Mmm... Don't blow out a battery, Baby ! Gunner, I want it from the Over Ride ! LOAD !!! Almost sexual, huh ? This game would be so cool in a turret mock-up, virtual glasses, canned smells, and belching breech block. Why not ? I wish it had non DU armor-- that stuff is just waiting to suck-up some UAV Rad-o-meter target acquiring ordnance, IMO-- talk about your self-homing target. I'd love THIS M-60A-1 Passive Rise hull-down near the scrap yard. Even an old Centurion. I want to defend scrap yards or what's left of Bethleham or US Steel so I can hide from UAV's ! Who knows, stuff like this could have real-time app-- there's tanks laying around that need crews or people to train them. Tanks are like airplanes-- that's how come Air Force-types restore old warbirds to air worthy condition w/armament in air museums all over the world.
Olde Tyme SPEARHEAD Soup ! Two (2) Diced Trunion Bearings, One (1) Minced O-Ring water obstacle crossing seal. One (1) Chopped Loader's Hatch Gasket-- beat gasket with Bore Evacuator Spanner Wrench until tender...
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| 18 NOV 2009 at 4:31pm |
LlyranorCenturion
Posts : 58
Joined: 27 MAR 2007
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Does it come with a physical manual? How big is it? I find that for sims, big bulky manuals are a must!
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| 18 NOV 2009 at 4:49pm |
James SterrettCenturion
Posts : 251
Joined: 15 SEP 2006
Status : Online | The printed manual is 103 pages and includes a key reference chart on the back.
That's before you get to the PDF manuals -- one per playable vehicle -- that typically run around 60-70 pages.
The full set of SBP manuals more or less fills a 4" ring binder.
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| 21 NOV 2009 at 10:46pm |
DA 1775Centurion
Posts : 761
Joined: 24 MAY 2009
Status : Online | The HUNT must be taking a Thanksgiving vaction in order to digest the trophies !
Are all the air assets appear to be A/I-driven-- any inside word on what is planned for this training module's future ? May players ever fast draw McGraw with human Warthog or Hind drivers ? I've been re-thinking the M-113 situation. How about a towed trailer with missile-in-a-box such as IDF JUMPER ?
Olde Tyme SPEARHEAD Soup ! Two (2) Diced Trunion Bearings, One (1) Minced O-Ring water obstacle crossing seal. One (1) Chopped Loader's Hatch Gasket-- beat gasket with Bore Evacuator Spanner Wrench until tender...
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| 22 NOV 2009 at 12:46am |
destraexGlobal Moderator
Posts : 6230
Joined: 8 MAY 2001
Location: AT, 3D
Status : Offline | don't think their are any plans for choppers to be playable. In fact air assets are kept to a minimum in order to allow the tankers to do thier jobs without being blown away every five seconds as far as i read a few years back.
The choppers were put in to add flavour and realism rather than to be a real threat to an entire division iirc.
The simulation is really focussed on what happens in land combat.... by now offcourse (have not played in a long time) the constant patches may have improved this. Thats one thing about the game I like. When i last played they were getting started on the bradley cockpit, now i believe its finished.
Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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| 22 NOV 2009 at 2:05pm |
James SterrettCenturion
Posts : 251
Joined: 15 SEP 2006
Status : Online | Markshot's posting here: [font="arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; border-collapse: collapse; white-space: pre; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "][link]http://www.wargamer.com/forums/fb.ashx?m=386635[/link]
(which is also the previous page) shows the playable vehicles. The M2A3 is also available, acting just like an M2A2 except for the dismount team.
[font="arial"][size="3"]
[font="arial"][size="3"]For a number of years, SBP development has been driven close to entirely by the various armies picking it up for training. They are writing the checks so they get their wishes granted first and foremost.
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| 22 NOV 2009 at 6:11pm |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | For those who are wondering what happened to Tanker, MarkShot.
Well, I have been busy fighting the Soviets, but in another time and place.
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/bb00.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/bb01.jpg[/img]
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| 22 NOV 2009 at 10:39pm |
DA 1775Centurion
Posts : 761
Joined: 24 MAY 2009
Status : Online | Tigers online ! 88 mike-mike ! Bang-Screech-Thump ! The Armor of childhood always does it better ! That looks cool, Tank Commander ! Jabo ! What about Sturmovik, K-9's with mines, and Ivan in the rubble ! I've got to start playing some tactical tank sims and games ! The Pershing 90mm zoo filled with ferocious Panthers and Tigers !
_________________
"In fact air assets are kept to a minimum in order to allow the tankers to do thier jobs without being blown away every five seconds as far as i read a few years back. "
Eyes like Coke bottles, mouth hanging open, breath sharply in-drawn, heart pounds. What you said ! Blasphemy ! Every five seconds ! Alive and well-- inter-service rivalry !
Olde Tyme SPEARHEAD Soup ! Two (2) Diced Trunion Bearings, One (1) Minced O-Ring water obstacle crossing seal. One (1) Chopped Loader's Hatch Gasket-- beat gasket with Bore Evacuator Spanner Wrench until tender...
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| 22 NOV 2009 at 10:52pm |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | The challenge in the scenario was to pull back the Tigers and Panthers in as rapid and coordinated fashion as possible out of the confines of a congested village to a defensible position. This while IS-2s and T-34s raced through the village.
One Tiger was lost pulling back. One Panther bogged and threw a track. It fought and died in place. A squad of infantry was able to slow the advancing Soviets as the enemy hesitated to simply bypass.
Two defensive lines were formed. The Panthers were formed with woods to the right and left, since they could not asorb any flanking shots. The Tigers formed the longer line.
It thus became impossible for the T-34s to flank. At the same time, the superiority of the IS-2s was negated by their disorganized advance and being out gunned many to one. The laws of tank to tank comparison favored the IS-2s, but the laws of statistics favored a line of Tigers.
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| 23 NOV 2009 at 12:49am |
destraexGlobal Moderator
Posts : 6230
Joined: 8 MAY 2001
Location: AT, 3D
Status : Offline | shock force normandy is gonna be soooo good
Moon reckons its gonna be out between jan and april sometime.
Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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| 23 NOV 2009 at 10:10am |
IronXCenturion
Posts : 967
Joined: 25 JUN 2011
Location: CA, British Columbia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By destraex
shock force normandy is gonna be soooo good
Moon reckons its gonna be out between jan and april sometime.
That's good news. I have high expectations for CM:N and hope BF delivers (this time) an excellent product out of the box.
I must say, CMBB is still a very good looking game - when not looking to closely at the infantry.
But back on topic, I haven't been able to get into SBPPE much. In part, I think it's because the game has so much to offer it's almost overwhelming. Mind you, I've been enjoying the WWII armoured sims: Steel Fury and T-34 vs Tiger lately, which may well lead me back to SB.
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