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Topic: Shogun 2: Total War First Look - US, June 2, 2010 - IGN

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All Forums : [GAMES] : Computer Gaming > Shogun 2: Total War First Look - US, June 2, 2010 - IGN

#26 3 JUN 2010 at 8:03am
destraex Global Moderator Posts : 6188 Joined: 8 MAY 2001 Location: AT, 3D Status : Offline	But Wolverine. I saw a documentary call the last samurai once. It had Tom Cruise in it and I am sure he will be one of the heroe units. Don't you want badly to put Tom on the throne? Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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#27 3 JUN 2010 at 8:19am
ComradeP Colonel Posts : 6889 Joined: 1 JUL 2006 Location: NL Status : Offline	Now the hero units sound more like the Kensai, I could live with that.
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#28 3 JUN 2010 at 8:44am
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	Going by the time frame my guess for an expansion is into Korea. Thanks for posting all of the above Destraex. I stopped getting PC Gamer years ago so now my curiosity is killing me as to what the 'shocking' statements were in the opening of the article... I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#29 3 JUN 2010 at 10:49am
Bison36 Colonel Posts : 6360 Joined: 31 MAR 2009 Location: US, Sweet Air of Freedom Status : Offline	Gus do what the rest of us do. Go to Barnes and Noble and "browse" the magazine section. I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations - James Madison
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#30 3 JUN 2010 at 10:52am
AAshbery76 Centurion Posts : 958 Joined: 15 MAR 2004 Location: UK Status : Offline	I think the Napoelon game proved that Totalwar games are better with a smaller scope.
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#31 3 JUN 2010 at 11:02am
Ulfang Centurion Posts : 855 Joined: 27 SEP 2005 Location: UK, Lancashire Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Ashbery76* I think the Napoelon game proved that Totalwar games are better with a smaller scope. Well it's all down to personal opinion. I love NTW but I'm back on ETW now and love it because of its larger scale. When Peninsular comes out I'll be back on a small scale game then will be back to ETW so I don't think being smaller scale makes the game better. I probably prefer ETW because of it's scale. Xfire - Ulfang Steam - Gavmundo Xbox Gamertag & PSN Profile - Gavmundo
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#32 3 JUN 2010 at 11:25am
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	Yeah I go back and forth as to how much scope I like...but the programming of TW games is definitely better when the scope is smaller. The AI just couldn't handle all 3 theaters in ETW the way it could handle say, the map of Japan in Shogun. My nearest Barnes and Noble is a half hour away... I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#33 3 JUN 2010 at 11:29am
Azzurri Banned for 15395 days Posts : 9755 Joined: 24 NOV 2009 Location: 0, Kentucky Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Ashbery76* I think the Napoelon game proved that Totalwar games are better with a smaller scope. Agreed. It is better to die by a swords quick thrust than to be impaled for a lifetime upon the sharp tongue of a woman.-Grimjack
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#34 3 JUN 2010 at 8:34pm
Bison36 Colonel Posts : 6360 Joined: 31 MAR 2009 Location: US, Sweet Air of Freedom Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Gusington* My nearest Barnes and Noble is a half hour away... When your done complaining Soldier, we can plan Operation Gus' Does B&N's Rack. I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations - James Madison
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#35 3 JUN 2010 at 9:42pm
jomni Global Moderator Posts : 2474 Joined: 24 APR 2007 Location: SG Status : Offline	I think that the hero units will act like the ones in Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Sango with special abilities like confuse, taunt, ambush, increase morale, etc. They are not super fighters like the kensai. This will make the game interesting and it's quite normal in Asian-prodcued computer games (refereing to tiles from Koei). These simulate the individual general's creative skill and abilities. Though exaggerated, these add flavor. And if you read Asian history books and novels, it's these creative tactics that wins wars especially when the odds are against you. I'm interested in siege battles. Japanese warfare never did use siege engines except for the ram. Japanese castles are built as an intricate network of gates and mazes that lead to no where. Actually most seiges last months and usually no attack is actually made. Some actually resort to drying out the moats before attacking because of the liberty of time. Maybe the multi-stage seige makes this possible. Medival Japan also has an intricate political system. Clans, "hostages", fluid alliances, imperial status. Wonder how they intend to simulate this? The article just mentioned family politics. For tactical battles, Japanese formations are intricate and curved (not just straight lines or columns). The main general has a command tent. Also a minor general can change sides in the middle of battles and influence the course of the engagement (as a result of prior bribing). Units are composed of mixed weapons... depends on what individual general can muster from his retainers and his fief. Even a single samurai carried a spear, a sword and a bow at the same time. This means units can multi-task. A complete opposite of what the article says. They should get at least these historical aspects right before I'll buy the game. I would believe CA is trying to copy some aspects of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition. They want to make a really "Asian" game. Good if they pull it off but I have some doubts as they have to cater to the West as well. Kieran should not have shouted "Banzai". It's rallying cry for the Japanese Emperor... literraly meaning 10,000 years. The Shogun took the power away from the emperor. Looks like he doesn't know his Japanese history.
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#36 3 JUN 2010 at 11:03pm
destraex Global Moderator Posts : 6188 Joined: 8 MAY 2001 Location: AT, 3D Status : Offline	You make a good point Jomni, unlike knights in the west samurai started with the bow and graduated to also having a sword. Their massive 7ft mounted samurai longbowmen being the classic example of this. So I would like to see the multi-skilled samurai with their sword, bow and spear at once. I do not think the total war game will do this well though unless its automatic. I would not want to micro manage the changing of weapons, it would make it very clicky. Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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#37 4 JUN 2010 at 1:27am
Martok Colonel Posts : 4018 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	The game includes Steam? Check. Empire still hasn't been fixed? Check. AI still crap? Check. CA once more promising streets paved with gold? Check. I love the setting and the era, but the above issues....sigh. I'll definitely be sitting back on this one. *Originally Posted By Ulfang* Good news for the fans of the original game though. Not all of us.... *Originally Posted By Gusington* I like the potential addition of Japanese mythological units. Gus, you wound me. Surely you're not serious! *Originally Posted By Greybriar* I will buy it if it doesn't require Steam. Another sticking point as well. I won't say I had the worst experience with Steam, but neither can I say it was good. *Originally Posted By Ashbery76* I think the Napoelon game proved that Totalwar games are better with a smaller scope. The original Shogun proved that just fine too. Never fully understood why CA went "big" after that. "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#38 4 JUN 2010 at 1:52am
destraex Global Moderator Posts : 6188 Joined: 8 MAY 2001 Location: AT, 3D Status : Offline	Martok, you did not mention NTW? Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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#39 4 JUN 2010 at 3:13am
ComradeP Colonel Posts : 6889 Joined: 1 JUL 2006 Location: NL Status : Offline	Aside from archers and riflemen with bayonets, TW games don't really have units with more than 1 weapon. Knights should also generally have access to a sword and some other weapon, but they don't. I guess making Samurai "archer" units with a ranged and melee attack should be possible, or maybe let them use their bows like units in R:TW used throwing weapons prior to melee battle. I wouldn't consider the odds too high that they will include units with 3 different weapons.
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#40 4 JUN 2010 at 7:47am
Sol Invictus Centurion Posts : 967 Joined: 6 APR 2005 Location: US Status : Offline	Samurai Archers could use swords in STW by using the Alt command button so I assume that they will also have melee abilities in STW2. I look forward to the game but do wish that CA could have resisted the temptation to include the Hero silliness. "The fruit of too much liberty is slavery" Cicero
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#41 4 JUN 2010 at 8:08am
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	I am serious Martok. Japanese mythological units sound fun to me. Please forgive me. And Empire v1.6 is pretty fixed. I beg you to try it out. I'M BEGGIN' YOU MARTOK! Come on now. I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#42 4 JUN 2010 at 8:33am
beatoangelico Centurion Posts : 183 Joined: 26 MAY 2010 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By ComradeP* I guess making Samurai "archer" units with a ranged and melee attack should be possible, or maybe let them use their bows like units in R:TW used throwing weapons prior to melee battle. actually in the original Shogun the archers carried swords and were strong in melee, which arguably made them the best unit of the game
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#43 4 JUN 2010 at 3:56pm
Martok Colonel Posts : 4018 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Gusington* I am serious Martok. Japanese mythological units sound fun to me. Please forgive me. And Empire v1.6 is pretty fixed. I beg you to try it out. I'M BEGGIN' YOU MARTOK! Come on now. Oh, fine. I'll reinstall Empire and give it another go, if only because it's too painful to see you beg. [ ] It will probably have to wait for at least another few days, as I don't have much time to play (any games) at the moment, but I'll try and start a new campaign this next week sometime. [crosses fingers for luck] I'm still worried about you regarding your apparent interest in fantasy units, though. [ ] "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#44 4 JUN 2010 at 4:45pm
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	^That's better. Open your mind Martok. And what's wrong with mixing history and fantasy? Exhibit A: [image]http://www.hollywoodtuna.com/images3/marisa_miller_harley_hot_two_three_small.jpg[/image] I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#45 4 JUN 2010 at 10:25pm
Martok Colonel Posts : 4018 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	Incidentally, it looks like Jeff van Dyke has returned to do the music for Shogun 2. So at least that's one thing right (just a thousand more to go!). *Originally Posted By Gusington* And what's wrong with mixing history and fantasy? Nothing -- when it's a game specifically intended to mix the two (ala the King Arthur wargame). It's when games that [are making at least a pretense of historical reality] include obvious fantasy units that I start foaming at the mouth. [size="1"](Note: I disliked the Kensai and Battlefield Ninja from the original STW as well; fun to play with yes, but they definitely disrupted my sense of immersion.) "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#46 4 JUN 2010 at 10:36pm
Tarm Centurion Posts : 343 Joined: 17 AUG 2005 Location: SE Status : Offline	Anyone know how it will play? I loved the first Total War but the sequels kept getting faster and more RTSish which I hate.
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#47 6 JUN 2010 at 12:15am
destraex Global Moderator Posts : 6188 Joined: 8 MAY 2001 Location: AT, 3D Status : Offline	The other day I was at a mates place when I noticed and reclaimed my Rome Total War Prima Guide. It was great fun to remember all of the units and the flavour of the game. To that end I cannot remember for the life of me where my Shogun manual is, so I began looking and surprisingly the manuals, maps etc are all online for free. The Prima guide is the only one thats still a paying demo. I look forward to perusing this old text and daydreaming about what units and features will carry over to shogun2 the shogun manuals map keycards and everything are here: [link=http://www.replacementdocs.com/search.php?q=shogun&r=0&s=Search]http://www.replacementd...gun&r=0&s=Search[/link] Allows you to read up on all the likely available unit types and remind those of us (including me) who played the original what it was like. Medieval Real Time, Mount and Blade style Historical Combat.
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#48 6 JUN 2010 at 5:36am
ComradeP Colonel Posts : 6889 Joined: 1 JUL 2006 Location: NL Status : Offline	Samurai Archers could use swords in STW by using the Alt command button so I assume that they will also have melee abilities in STW2. & actually in the original Shogun the archers carried swords and were strong in melee, which arguably made them the best unit of the game I already mentioned that some units had 2 weapons but that they were ranged units, the point is that they're not likely to have 3 as mentioned earlier and not 2 melee weapons either. I remember the tutorial mission for Shogun which was rather weird as you had to order the archers to first engage the attackers running up the hill with arrows and then had to use them to finish them with swords as your own regular infantry in that mission wasn't really worth much. Battlefield Ninja from the original STW They were mostly good for killing unit leaders and I could "believe" they were units with special assassination missions during the battle which made their presence on the battlefield less of a suspension of disbelief than the Kensai one man army.
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#49 6 JUN 2010 at 6:16am
toonces Commander Posts : 2322 Joined: 21 MAR 2006 Status : Offline	I've been slowly working my way through a book called, "Musashi" about, well, Musashi, a Japanese Samurai. In the book, he routinely gets into fights with 10+ other dudes and whacks them all out. I have no idea how "realistic" that is, but you know, I've always look at TW games as more of an experience than a true historical simulation. I mean, they're not the grog level of wargaminess, you know? You take the games for what they are, and if you don't think too hard about it and just enjoy them, they're a great time. I'm looking forward to Shogun. I agree that the best games seem to be smaller in scope. While I enjoy(ed) M2TW's grand campaign, I definitely prefer the tighter scope of the Crusades and Teutonic add-on campaigns. It just makes for a tighter playing campaign IMO. "I am always fondling my nut sack, just to be safe. " - bboyer66 "It's like Mount and Blade got together with Total War and had a game baby." - Bison36 on Real Warfare Northern Crusades
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#50 6 JUN 2010 at 8:21am
Sol Invictus Centurion Posts : 967 Joined: 6 APR 2005 Location: US Status : Offline	toonces, I agree about the smaller campaigns. The large campaigns always seem to spin out of control and end with rediculous outcomes. I always lose any desire to continue once things start to get silly. The smller campaigns keep things under control much better and lead to plausible outcomes usually. Comrade, I don't expect the TW engine will allow multiple melee weapons anytime soon though it would be nice. I guess Knights in M2TW did with the Lance and Sword/Mace but that is the only case if memory serves. Having a choice of three weapons would be a nice addition. "The fruit of too much liberty is slavery" Cicero
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Topic: Shogun 2: Total War First Look - US, June 2, 2010 - IGN

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