| 25 JUN 2010 at 9:32pm |
markhCenturion
Posts : 76
Joined: 13 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By son_of_montfort
I guess I wonder why you bring it up? You said you didn't buy the game, so why and pardon me for saying this, "stir up trouble" with those that did? I'm not sure "slagging" anyone gets anything accomplished, particularly if the dev team is furiously "remedial patching."
SoM
Hi SOM
"Why bring it up?" when I have not bought the game - obviously because I am asking those people on this forum their thoughts as to whether they are optimistic about the game reaching its potential - it is not really a hard concept grasp - i.e. ocassional wargamer asking more experienced and knowledgable wargamers their thoughts - including those who have purchased the game.
There is no intention on my part to "stir up trouble"- I am entriely self-interested. For the record, this is EXACTLY the type of game I WANT to purchase, and I would have if I was not alerted by the problems identified on the forums. Please do not read more into my post than there is. I work 55 hours a week and have family commitments which means I cannot afford to waste what recreational time I have. However, if posters on this forum (who I read and respect - which includes you!) think that it is a game worth following, then I will. I have followed views and advice from this forum in the past and have been very happy with the results - e.g. Jarhead's comments in relation to purchasing SB Pro PE.
In terms of so-called "slagging" - I own and run a small professional services business employing 25 people. I expect, and welcome, constructive criticism. Fixing a poor product or remedying poor service for clients is a normal expectation in commerce and business, as is being criticised for poor product and poor service. Where such criticism happens it causes (or should cause) a well run businesses to "lift their game" - for the record that is what is "accomplished" by constructive criticism. The proof as to whether the criticisms have accomplished anything will be determined in the next product release by the dev - and I do wish that the dev get their act together and do more work in the future.
Hi Jarhead
Thanks for your observations on the HOI3 people. Your comments help make sense of the issues, and I feel that I have a better understanding of the matter.
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| 26 JUN 2010 at 12:06am |
son_of_montfortColonel
Posts : 8163
Joined: 6 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Markh,
I meant no offense, I just thought the tone of what you said was odd, something along the lines of "why are we not giving this a thrashing like we did with HoI3." Jarhead hit the nail on the head there, so no need to rehash that.
As to your second paragraph above, I would absolutely say "WAIT" if you have family commitments and expect a fully finished and mostly bug-free product. Even though I pre-ordered, I am actually "waiting" as well, the game is installed but yet to be run even once. I have other things to do and, like yourself, don't really want to beta test. But, I would keep your eye open - because (and this is taking the original MH as evidence) once they get those bugs squashed I think MH2 will be one of the better WWII era sims. I absolutely loved MH1, and it had a rocky beginning, so give MH2 a few weeks to a month and it will be much improved. Check back in here and on the official forums for the best time to buy and I'm sure we'll keep you posted.
I also think that constructive criticism is very useful for developers. However, it can sometimes be hard to find constructive criticism on forums, with all the din of complaints and non-constructive attacking (certainly not here, but as a general rule about forums). I think I used up all my vitriol on HoI3 anyway... []
Son_of_Montfort  "Slander is a poison which extinguishes charity, both in the slanderer and in the persons who listen to it." Bernard of Clairvaux
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| 26 JUN 2010 at 3:59am |
ArizonaTankCenturion
Posts : 582
Joined: 25 APR 2005
Status : Offline | Is there a list of things that are different from the original MH? It has been a while since I played the first one, so probably my memory is faulty. But I feel that except for the improved graphics, I am playing the same game.
"No, No, mix them all up. I'm tired of state's rights."
Union General George Thomas' reply to his chaplain, when asked if the dead from the Chatanooga campaign should be buried by state as had been done at Gettysburg.
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| 26 JUN 2010 at 4:03am |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Markh,
I would concur with Som. If your looking for the "final" game without wanting to participate in any kind of "beta" testing then you defintely want to wait until things get straighten out. Who knows how long it will take, but at least the developers are committed to putting out frequent patches so hopefully it will be sometime in the near future.
Each person has to decide for themselves if they want to be part of the process or just part of the end results. Either way is just fine. When I joined the true "beta" back in May I knew the game would be buggy as heck until the official release but I did it because I felt at some point it would be a finished product and would like to play it. So why not jump in and start the learning process early. I know that is not for everyone so that is the great part about each person having a choice.
Having said all of that, there is no doubt (as I have said on this forum) I expected a better product when it was actually officially released and I do think they made a mistake in pushing it out the door, but I'm guessing they had to for one reason or another. I'll admit if I would have purchased the game on release day versus being in the beta, I would have been much more upset because my expectations would have been higher. At this point I have accepted what happened and will see how this game progresses and hope the developer makes it the game it was supposed to be and at this point, I don't have any reason to believe they won't. Now if the game is still in bad shape in a few months, maybe I'll change my tune Luckily I have a million other new games that can keep my attention during this time.
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| 26 JUN 2010 at 4:09am |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ArizonaTank
Is there a list of things that are different from the original MH? It has been a while since I played the first one, so probably my memory is faulty. But I feel that except for the improved graphics, I am playing the same game.
I haven't really seen a detailed list, but probably checking out their blog is the best place. What makes it harder, is that during each version release for MHII they are adding features each time, therefore you have to read through the release notes to see the new additions.
http://making-history.com/blog
This forum also has some threads on new stuff and such.
http://making-history.com/forum/section/150429/1
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| 26 JUN 2010 at 5:16am |
Wolverine101Colonel
Posts : 3802
Joined: 14 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | I'm glad I waited on this as with Paradox I'm not paying to be a beta tester.
Want is the foundation of impatience, a step without thought can be a drop without end
Dbeves: And LMFAO - didnt you just have to work battlefront into your response somewhere - you are priceless.
Listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAycDqhog
"ha! GL getting THAT much...lolz"
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| 28 JUN 2010 at 8:40am |
DigitusImpudicusCenturion
Posts : 293
Joined: 15 NOV 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By spelk
I thought the big selling point of MHII was its multiplayer ability, and the ability to continue play over the net via a browser. Is this functionality present in the current version?
Hi Spelk,
MP functionality is present in the current game, via LAN or direct IP. The multiplayer service has not yet launched, but it will later this summer.
Chris--
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 9:41am |
DennisSCommander
Posts : 1295
Joined: 12 FEB 2004
Location: US
Status : Online | Another patch is out, 1.08.
There are still major, major, gamebreaking issues.
Food still isn't fixed, and neither is the economy.
It is also a memory hog, and will grind down your pc towards the end of games, assuming you can make it that far.
The good news in all this is that all the buyers of this game are acting as the beta testers, and are bringing a ton of issues to light.
In just a couple of months, this may well be an excellent game, as the developers appear to be more than willing to listen to inputs.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 9:58am |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By DennisS
Another patch is out, 1.08.
There are still major, major, gamebreaking issues.
Food still isn't fixed, and neither is the economy.
It is also a memory hog, and will grind down your pc towards the end of games, assuming you can make it that far.
The good news in all this is that all the buyers of this game are acting as the beta testers, and are bringing a ton of issues to light.
In just a couple of months, this may well be an excellent game, as the developers appear to be more than willing to listen to inputs.
Be careful with upgrading to the latest version 1.08. Some crazy stuff introduced. I would recommend to anyone prior to buying or upgrading, always take a look at the forums first since that is where a lot of the issues/progress is being discussed. It is great they continue to release patches, but seems like we are still a ways off from a stable and complete game.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 10:09am |
tgb123Commander
Posts : 1474
Joined: 13 NOV 2009
Status : Offline | I still have the original MH on the shelf somewhere. I was waiting to see the improvements to II, but now I'm tempted to reinstall. I want to upgrade to the Gold version, which I understand added a lot of improvements. Is there a patch to purchase/download that upgrades the original to MH Gold? I really don't want to re-purchase it for $20.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 10:19am |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By tgb123
I still have the original MH on the shelf somewhere. I was waiting to see the improvements to II, but now I'm tempted to reinstall. I want to upgrade to the Gold version, which I understand added a lot of improvements. Is there a patch to purchase/download that upgrades the original to MH Gold? I really don't want to re-purchase it for $20.
Although I could be wrong, I believe the gold version was a complete stand-alone product so there wasn't any upgrade from the original MHI.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 1:08pm |
GwNorthCenturion
Posts : 90
Joined: 11 JUL 2007
Status : Offline | I can understand completely where Markh Is coming from. There was a time I would buy these games when they first came out only to be frustrated by the bugs that cropped up. I found that when I got such a game the first impression (bug ridden) usually resulted in my not ever playing it again.
9 times out of 10 now I wait for 6 months to a year, follow the forums , ask the same types of questions and then buy the game once it appears most of the "game breaking issues" dealt with.
I appreciate the people who buy it right away and then help make my own experience better with their constructive criticism to the designers. I am VERY much interested in the Developers that WILL release patches and are interested in creating a better gaiming experience based on the feedback.
When a company does such it TENDS to show they have an interest in their product becoming a success. The worst type of company are those that release bug laden messes and then do nothing to fix them.
Dominions Three and SPWAW to me are absolute classics which I play again and again and this in part to the fact that developers (and others) continue to release patches years after the games released.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 3:08pm |
DennisSCommander
Posts : 1295
Joined: 12 FEB 2004
Location: US
Status : Online | I have been looking at Dominions 3 for ... years.
How accessible and playable is it? It looks pretty durned difficult for me, and complex games don't generally put me off.
To me, there are three components of games, realism, complexity, and playabilility. I need game to be playable, always, then I will look at the other factors involved. Dominions 3, to me, looks extremely complex, realistic (for the genre), but I am not sure about the playability part.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 4:20pm |
GwNorthCenturion
Posts : 90
Joined: 11 JUL 2007
Status : Offline | Dominions 3 is VERY playable in my opinion. You can scale the size of the game to your liking. AS example you can create maps with one opponent and 20 or 30 provinces, or make maps with dozens of opponents and literally hundreds of provinces.
I have games like Uncommon Valor, War Plan Orange and AGEOD's ACW (amongst many others) and would rate Dominions 3 as far more playable then those.
While best as a multiplayer game , I find it quite fun simply playing against Computer opponents as well. There IS a lot of depth to the game and in order to learn it I started with smaller maps and then worked my ways upwards to ever larger ones wherein more of the detail would come into play (Ie Enchanting items...the various spells learned and cast etc).
As well every race/faction plays quite differently and each has its own strategies. This not just from a Geographical perspective but from the types of troops/spells/items available to each. Some have a much higher learning curve. (HOW one race plays when compared to another has much more differences then in more traditional games and given the number of races and the ability to generate ones own maops, the game very replayable)
It remains one of my most played games on my computer and one I will never remove. If it came down to being on a desert Island and I could only take ONE Computer game with me, this would warrant serious consideration as the one.
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| 4 JUL 2010 at 9:26pm |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By GwNorth
I can understand completely where Markh Is coming from. There was a time I would buy these games when they first came out only to be frustrated by the bugs that cropped up. I found that when I got such a game the first impression (bug ridden) usually resulted in my not ever playing it again.
9 times out of 10 now I wait for 6 months to a year, follow the forums , ask the same types of questions and then buy the game once it appears most of the "game breaking issues" dealt with.
I appreciate the people who buy it right away and then help make my own experience better with their constructive criticism to the designers. I am VERY much interested in the Developers that WILL release patches and are interested in creating a better gaiming experience based on the feedback.
When a company does such it TENDS to show they have an interest in their product becoming a success. The worst type of company are those that release bug laden messes and then do nothing to fix them.
Dominions Three and SPWAW to me are absolute classics which I play again and again and this in part to the fact that developers (and others) continue to release patches years after the games released.
Sadly, I may have to find a way to control my own impulse buying in the future. Way too many games coming out nowadays to keep throwing money at hit and misses. I had much higher expectations for this game since it was in development for some time plus delayed a few times so thought it would be a much more polished product by the official release. I still have hope for this one in the end, but certainly will make me a tad bit more cautious in the future.
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 4:38am |
YskonynCommander
Posts : 1118
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: NL
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By GwNorth
Dominions 3 is VERY playable in my opinion. You can scale the size of the game to your liking. AS example you can create maps with one opponent and 20 or 30 provinces, or make maps with dozens of opponents and literally hundreds of provinces.
(...)
As well every race/faction plays quite differently and each has its own strategies. This not just from a Geographical perspective but from the types of troops/spells/items available to each. Some have a much higher learning curve. (HOW one race plays when compared to another has much more differences then in more traditional games and given the number of races and the ability to generate ones own maops, the game very replayable)
Ditto here. I held off for quite a while myself cause I wasn't really sure wether I would like it, but I am glad I bought it afterall. It comes with a nice thick paper manual as well (we all like those don't we? []) which is actually quite informative because it is written by a player, as was once told me. It is a little outdated because the game has gone through a few changes, but nothing I have found that hampers your learning with it.
The playability is indeed very good. Menu's are clear and I have never found any game controls counter intuitive here.
There are dozens of races and then again you have three ages to play in which alters the way the races play.
If you get tired of the stock ones you can download additional races as well from the various mods.
Lastly, *every* map (or picture for that matter) can be made into a D3 map. The game defines provinces by little spots you place on the map picture you want to use. So it doesn't actually 'see' the map as we do. This has resulted in some very beautiful maps being compiled for D3.
Oh and one little thing: I don't think the demo with the tutorial) shows what D3 gameplay is about because it doesn't touch any of the advanced stuff like Bless, Item Creation and such. It's just warfare with some standard units.
(Excuse me for going off topic here)
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 4:59am |
ArizonaTankCenturion
Posts : 582
Joined: 25 APR 2005
Status : Offline | I am seeing some very strange diplomatic behavior after the last patch. Britain's colonies like Afghanistan and Egypt declared independence. Japan declared war on France in 1937. and then I started seeing messages for France and Britain, where "Britain declared Independence from Britain" and "France declared Independence from France."
Anyone else seeing this sort of diplomatic free-fall?
"No, No, mix them all up. I'm tired of state's rights."
Union General George Thomas' reply to his chaplain, when asked if the dead from the Chatanooga campaign should be buried by state as had been done at Gettysburg.
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 5:03am |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By ArizonaTank
I am seeing some very strange diplomatic behavior after the last patch. Britain's colonies like Afghanistan and Egypt declared independence. Japan declared war on France in 1937. and then I started seeing messages for France and Britain, where "Britain declared Independence from Britain" and "France declared Independence from France."
Anyone else seeing this sort of diplomatic free-fall?
Yep. After the latest patch, game is even more unplayable than before because of this alone. Here is a link in their support area discussing it even further. Not sure how the developers would not have been able to see this before releasing the patch since you only have to hit the "next turn" button so many times before you see the craziness start.
http://making-history.com/forum/thread/357140/1
Not sure if related to the latest patch, but I still see some other weird stuff like the following I reported where my fleet was the only remaining untis of my country but I never got taken over by the enemy. The AI was incapable of building a sizeable fleet to attack me. Everytime, they just threw a couple of ships at me. That is not even the worst part. My country should have surrendered if all I had was a fleet left.
http://making-history.com/forum/thread/357193/1
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 12:28pm |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | First review I have seen on the game from Gamespot. As expected, not too pleasant. Scores a 4 out of 10 and basically recommends not to waste your time or money right now.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/makinghistoryiithewaroftheworld/review.html
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 12:31pm |
AAshbery76Centurion
Posts : 958
Joined: 15 MAR 2004
Location: UK
Status : Offline | What a kick to the balls.
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 12:32pm |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ashbery76
What a kick to the balls.
Yep. This is part of what the developers have to live with based on their decision to release. We'll have to see the long term impact.
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 12:52pm |
smittyohioCenturion
Posts : 241
Joined: 23 JUL 2004
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Grim.Reaper
Originally Posted By Ashbery76
What a kick to the balls.
Yep. This is part of what the developers have to live with based on their decision to release. We'll have to see the long term impact.
I know people have cut them some slack because the devs have been honest about what the state of the game was, but if they were going to release it in such a state it shouldn't have been sold via 3rd parties. If you sold it as "beta" from your own site, you could potentially prevent the mainstream review sites from writing a piece on it. From the feedback here and on their site, it sounds like the review is accurate, if not a little kind.
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 12:57pm |
Grim.ReaperCenturion
Posts : 692
Joined: 31 DEC 2009
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By smittyohio
Originally Posted By Grim.Reaper
Originally Posted By Ashbery76
What a kick to the balls.
Yep. This is part of what the developers have to live with based on their decision to release. We'll have to see the long term impact.
I know people have cut them some slack because the devs have been honest about what the state of the game was, but if they were going to release it in such a state it shouldn't have been sold via 3rd parties. If you sold it as "beta" from your own site, you could potentially prevent the mainstream review sites from writing a piece on it. From the feedback here and on their site, it sounds like the review is accurate, if not a little kind.
Not me Although I support their efforts in getting the game into good shape, I'll never support their decision to release it when they did, knowing what they knew. Even if the developers admitted it was in bad shape, the only people who would have known that are people who visit the forums, which probably is a low percentage of people who actually bought the game, especially the people who bought box copies.
Only time will tell if this was a wise business move on their part. A year from now, this might end up being the best WWII strategy game out there, but will the damage already been done? Who knows...
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| 5 JUL 2010 at 2:46pm |
Arctic BlastCommander
Posts : 2503
Joined: 9 APR 2007
Location: CA, Alberta
Status : Offline | The only way this release with the game in this shape makes sense is if the devs were flat broke, and just didn't have any revenue left to spend on development.
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