| 20 SEP 2010 at 11:09am |
SytCommander
Posts : 1037
Joined: 2 AUG 2008
Status : Offline | Knavery, after installing GamersGate games, the downloader asks you whether you want to keep the temporary files. I think if you select "yes" it keeps the installers on the HD (haven't tried it myself yet, tbh).
[b][color=darkred][i]One strikeout is a tragedy, a million strikeouts are a statistic.[/i][/color][/b]
- "Stallin' Joe" Dshugashvili, Manager of the Moscow Red Stars 1922-53
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 11:45am |
tigersfanCenturion
Posts : 88
Joined: 12 JUL 2010
Status : Offline | GOG.com just posted this update:
UPDATE 20.09.2010
First of all, we apologize everyone for the whole situation and closing GOG.com. We do understand the timing for taking down the site caused confusion and many users didn't manage to download all their games. Unfortunately we had to close the service due to business and technical reasons.
At the same time we guarantee that every user who bought any game on GOG.com will be able to download all their games with bonus materials, DRM-free and as many times as they need starting this Thursday.
The official statement from GOG.com's management concerning the ongoing events is planned on Wednesday. If you want to receive further information about GOG.com, please send an email to update_media@gog.com if you're a media representative or to update_users@gog.com if you're a user without a GOG account.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 11:49am |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Another thing which I find odd is how many of you are shocked by the way something is apparently happening without any forewarning. From my experience with small businesses, this is fairly typical whether or not the staff new. It's much easier to keep things quiet in a small privately held business.
My general inclination is:
(1) Whatever happened was probably not such a shocker to the investors and principals.
(2) The rest of us can speculate all we want, but are unlikely to ever get the full truth or a substantial portion.
Of course, sometimes the employees are the last to know. In the 80s, I worked for a Ticker Plant (distributes continuous stock & commodity prices along with financial news). Our business unit was owned by a Fortune 500 corporation. Anyway, we first found out we had been sold as we saw it come streaming across the Ticker feed. Kind of like finding out you have cancer by seeing a notice in your home town paper.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 12:11pm |
Picketts ChargeCenturion
Posts : 12
Joined: 26 MAR 2010
Status : Offline | Again, I still hold this is just a silly marketing ploy, perhaps they have been bought out by Steam or whatever, as others have speculated. The press release in effect says the site is down for business and technical reasons, not that they have gone bust / into administration or whatever....
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 12:31pm |
ShelldrakeCommander
Posts : 2742
Joined: 1 NOV 2006
Location: CA, Nova Scotia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Syt
Knavery, after installing GamersGate games, the downloader asks you whether you want to keep the temporary files. I think if you select "yes" it keeps the installers on the HD (haven't tried it myself yet, tbh).
You are quite right. You can keep the temporary files which saves you downloading them again for a reinstall but the installer still has to check in with GamersGate before installation occurs.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 12:32pm |
tgb123Commander
Posts : 1474
Joined: 13 NOV 2009
Status : Offline | I just wanted to point out the best thing about buying games on line - you can purchase as many as you want without your spouse/SO finding out, or having to come up with some bogus excuse for leaving the house/running out to Best Buy ("I just need to get some batteries, dear"), etc.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 12:38pm |
ShelldrakeCommander
Posts : 2742
Joined: 1 NOV 2006
Location: CA, Nova Scotia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By tgb123
I just wanted to point out the best thing about buying games on line - you can purchase as many as you want without your spouse/SO finding out, or having to come up with some bogus excuse for leaving the house/running out to Best Buy ("I just need to get some batteries, dear"), etc.
Added bonus for Canadians is that Revenue Canada doesn't yet tax digital downloads from non-Canadian sites, which for me means a 15% tax saving. []
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 1:26pm |
MIGMasterCommander
Posts : 2123
Joined: 4 MAY 2003
Status : Offline | Exactly ! [sm=00000002.gif]
"We like our women like our gaming - Hardcore !" LongBlade, circa 2008
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 1:50pm |
Arctic BlastCommander
Posts : 2503
Joined: 9 APR 2007
Location: CA, Alberta
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Greybriar
The "latest" I've read on the subject is that Steam bought Good Old Games. But don't tell anyone; it may not be true.
I've heard Valve, I've heard Atari, I've heard Activision, I've heard Zenimax, and so on and so on...
Actually, Valve would make sense. They'g get CD Projekt in house, and they've shown interest in bringing in devs before.
Ironically, they're one of the few purchasers who might be interested in GOG, and not just CD Projekt. I could see them using GOG as a secondary sales outlet where all the older games would be sold, with GOG staffers working to make them workable on modern systems as they have previously.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 1:53pm |
GusingtonGeneral
Posts : 18089
Joined: 16 AUG 2004
Location: US, USMA
Status : Offline | tgb123 is a genius.
I still like getting a physical copy when I can though, even if its linked to Steam or somesuch.
I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon.
- Rayfer
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 2:25pm |
ShelldrakeCommander
Posts : 2742
Joined: 1 NOV 2006
Location: CA, Nova Scotia
Status : Offline | Some interesting speculation today from lazygamer.
According to GoG.com’s twitter account, the DRM-free functionality of GOG is causing hassles with publishers. This is curious since last week, they secured the license to distribute the Age of Wonders series. So someone big must have kicked up a fuss about the DRM situation.
Now this is where things get interesting. Optimus S.A, the company that merged with CD Projekt in 2009 (the company that made The Witcher) and subsequently GoG.com, has scheduled an extraordinary general meeting for this coming Wednesday. This was after it was confirmed that approximately 5.5% of the company will be sold to a unnamed private investor. This naturally sparked concerns regarding a possible takeover, however that is very unlikely since 5.5% isn’t enough to secure control of the company on its own. Unfortunately, this couldn’t be verified since I could not find an accurate list of current shareholders. All the Polish websites produced conflicting information regarding who controlled what percentage of the company. Optimus S.A’s corporate website detailed the two co-founders of CD Projekt as the primary shareholders with an equal 20% each, while a Polish financial site listed another bloke as a holder of around 50%, which is ridiculously unlikely.
Either way, 5.5% is not enough to takeover the company unless one of the co-founders with 20% is trying to screw the other one. And if the claim of someone owning 50% is accurate, then 5.5% is a drop in the ocean.
So, a take over is unlikely. Also, reading through the draft agreement of the EGM didn’t show any mentions of a takeover or change in ownership or control.
Optimus S.A posted a profit for the first half of this year, in contrast to the loss they posted last year. GOG.com is a good, constant revenue source, so closing it down in the wake of a takeover is an illogical business decision. The only way it would make sense is if a competitor tried to purchase it, but which publisher would try to takeover a multi-million holding company to get hold of one of their revenue streams? It doesn’t quite make sense.
Furthermore, the stock price of Optimus S.A shot up 9.5% on Friday, so something is definitely afoot there.
The following quote comes for the Polish financial site Bankier, translated by Google, so please excuse the broken English:
“The aim of the negotiation and conclusion by Optimus investment agreement was to acquire funding for projects within the group Optimus in connection with the planned development, a significant reduction in debt of the company to shareholders, to improve the group’s balance sheet structure and the possession of Optimus among akcjonariuszy Optimus professional instytucji Financial – the report says the company.
That could be construed as a very cookie cutter response from the company, so I’m not sure how much truth is contained in it. The only way we will be sure whats happening at the parent company is when the report of the EGM this Wednesday is released.
Naturally, this could just be GOG.com ending the beta through a bizarre marketing stunt, and the full release pops up soon, but the fact that there is some much happening at the parent company surely cannot be a simple coincidence.
Based on the above information neither a takeover or the company going broke doesn't seem likely so we are left with a PR stunt for the transition from beta.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 3:21pm |
bssybeepCenturion
Posts : 185
Joined: 22 MAY 2005
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By tgb123
I just wanted to point out the best thing about buying games on line - you can purchase as many as you want without your spouse/SO finding out, or having to come up with some bogus excuse for leaving the house/running out to Best Buy ("I just need to get some batteries, dear"), etc.
LOL, very true!
btw, If gog goes the drm route, I've made my last purchase from them.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 5:04pm |
MC82Commander
Posts : 1598
Joined: 7 APR 2005
Location: US, Tx
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By son_of_montfort
Originally Posted By MarkShot
This is all very Taoist in a way. If you are not familiar with Chinese Taoism or Japanese Zen, I won't explain it; too difficult. In that case, just call this "ironic".
GOG is the anti-DRM, clean games site.
However, for quite a few you of you, GOG has emphasized the point that any form of persistent linkage between your game and those who sold it to you (not leased) can be a bad thing. Meaning you think they have it on their servers, and that their servers will be there in the future. And then, poof ...
I was actually thinking the same thing, that people rail on and on about Steam - with its "evil" DRM scheme - going under and removing access to all our games bought. On the flip side, people cheered GoG.com and pointed to their DRM-free stance. But it was the DRM-free guys that removed access (albeit temporarily) to our games first.
But I don't think this is a good argument against buying digitally. Sure, its ironic. Sure, it highlights problems with limited access to the games we buy. But this is one of the first times this has happened and, from what I see, it will be temporary (and for those that already had backups of the DL file, then they have no problems). It would be no different than if Matrix went under <shudder> and we could no longer DL the games we bought with them. But for 10+ years I have been enjoying use of things like Steam and buying games without leaving my desk chair. Not to mention the lower costs and the lack of needless plastic and cardboard use (better for the environment).
I'll take the risks - the rewards outweigh them.
To me it's shown a horrifying picture of what's to come on the day one of the other digital distributers out there that, unlike GOG, doesn't allow you to keep, backup, and install directly from your game installer (no "activation", no need to connect to their server, etc), goes belly up the same way and EVERYONE is screwed and locked out of their games since creating your own backups is not an option.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 6:12pm |
ghostryderColonel
Posts : 6934
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | I was actually thinking the same thing, that people rail on and on about Steam - with its "evil" DRM scheme - going under and removing access to all our games bought. On the flip side, people cheered GoG.com and pointed to their DRM-free stance. But it was the DRM-free guys that removed access (albeit temporarily) to our games first.
But I don't think this is a good argument against buying digitally. Sure, its ironic. Sure, it highlights problems with limited access to the games we buy. But this is one of the first times this has happened and, from what I see, it will be temporary (and for those that already had backups of the DL file, then they have no problems). It would be no different than if Matrix went under <shudder> and we could no longer DL the games we bought with them. But for 10+ years I have been enjoying use of things like Steam and buying games without leaving my desk chair. Not to mention the lower costs and the lack of needless plastic and cardboard use (better for the environment).
I'll take the risks - the rewards outweigh them.
Actually this has happened before- many times. As an example, a company supposively too big to fail- the largest retailer in the World-Walmart- shut their DRM servers down on their online music-
http://boingboing.net/2008/09/26/walmart-shutting-dow.html
It can and does happen.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 7:24pm |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | At least half the games (out of around 30) on my hard drive are the work of defunct ventures. At best, 5 are still supported in any fashion. Fortunately for me, failed business ventures and lack of support are totally irrelevant to me as I possess the whole game and none require any servers for activation or phone home. Although the issue of future hardware and O/S compatible will is a matter of concern.
It's funny how the oldest games (DOS) are now the most robust games I have relative to future hardware and O/S. One would have initially thought that Win9x and WinXP games would have had the longest shelf life with their use of APIs as opposed to direct hardware interaction. Surprise ... surprise ...
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 7:50pm |
Herman HumCenturion
Posts : 887
Joined: 28 JUL 2006
Location: 0
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MarkShot
It's funny how the oldest games (DOS) are now the most robust games I have relative to future hardware and O/S. One would have initially thought that Win9x and WinXP games would have had the longest shelf life with their use of APIs as opposed to direct hardware interaction. Surprise ... surprise ...
I, too, am finding that the oldest software is the most stable. I can do a quick copy and past of the folder from an old installation to my XP without any problem. However, stuff that is installed and uses the Registry is often problematic.
Can you explain what APIs are and elaborate on how they are incompatible with newer OS? What did the old DOS games use and why are they seemingly easier to transfer to the new OS? What do the newest games use if not APIs?
The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 9:55pm |
MarkShotCommander
Posts : 2935
Joined: 3 MAR 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Back in the old DOS days, every application (including games) interacted directly with the hardware. As the various forms of hardware began to grow from sound cards, video cards (not yet 3D, but frame buffers), memory, and a number of different processor classes ... it became a challenge for developers to make their software work on all different platforms. DOS did provide some basic services, but mainly for file system management and not for the evolving multi-media components.
Windows evolved initially as an early form of multi-tasking (running and doing more than one thing at a time). By Windows 3 it really began take off with the introduction of the GUI (graphical user interface). But another big thing that Windows began to provide was a standardize layer for applications to interact with hardware. Effectively abstracting hardware so that it was easier to develop applications and they could run more reliably across various platforms. These were referred to as APIs (application interfaces). Thus, it only became necessary for hardware vendors to provide drivers for their hardware as opposed to every developer worrying about the low level specifics.
Additionally, Windows brought about a standardization for interaction with applications.
It is not so much that DOS games are so inherently more compatible than Win 9X games. It is rather that:
(1) DOS proves in many ways to be a lowest common denominator and fairly easy to emulate in the kernel of things like XP and Win7 upon today's modern hardware. Old Windows systems are more involved. The standard VM (virtual machines) work fine for them, but not for the multi-media aspect of older games.
(2) DOSBox is a superbly done emulator. Without it a lot of old DOS games would not be playable or not play nearly as well as they do.
I hope that answers your question in 200 words or less.
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 10:41pm |
son_of_montfortColonel
Posts : 8163
Joined: 6 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | To me it's shown a horrifying picture of what's to come on the day one of the other digital distributers out there that, unlike GOG, doesn't allow you to keep, backup, and install directly from your game installer (no "activation", no need to connect to their server, etc), goes belly up the same way and EVERYONE is screwed and locked out of their games since creating your own backups is not an option.
Meh. Maybe it will happen. Maybe it won't. Right now I've gotten 7 years of use out of Steam. That is several generations of games, some are so dated now that they are hardly worth playing (I'm not like Markshot, who can be content with literally mastering a game a decade or more old). But because digital distribution is now overtaking retail as the method for purchasing games, I'm going to say that you are going to see retailers really cutting back or stopping the sale of hardcopies before a biggie like Steam goes down (and probably Gamersgate too).
Actually this has happened before- many times. As an example, a company supposively too big to fail- the largest retailer in the World-Walmart- shut their DRM servers down on their online music-
http://boingboing.net/2008/09/26/walmart-shutting-dow.html
It can and does happen.
Apples and Oranges. Walmart is a multi-headed hydra with tons of different business interests and ventures. They cut off heads with problems to add new heads that are more profitable. Steam is a dedicated venture to one market - digitally distributed games. These two things are not comparable. IIRC this is the first major change with a digital distributor (and also with one of the newer ones and more "specialized"). Steam also has over 25 million users now, all for just that one service.
It's funny how the oldest games (DOS) are now the most robust games I have relative to future hardware and O/S. One would have initially thought that Win9x and WinXP games would have had the longest shelf life with their use of APIs as opposed to direct hardware interaction. Surprise ... surprise ...
In some ways, I agree, in others I disagree. Having compatible copies of Master of Magic, Might and Magic, and Realms of Arkania are nice and yes they do run well on modern systems. However, I think you are forgetting the fact that they often did NOT run well back when we bought them! I hate to have a special boot menu so that I could run Ultima 7 and Ultima 7: Serpent's Isle, because they used this esoteric "Voodoo" memory management system. I can actually run these games EASIER now with Exult than when I bought them. Other games were similar and required the same sort of tweaking to run, or perhaps a special boot-up or boot disk. So sure, they are robust now, but that offsets the amazing amount of work that it took to get them to run then! Oddly enough, like you said, games that were easy to run in the past using Windows are now really hard to run in Windows XP, Vista, and 7 - due to lack of compatibility.
Unfortunately for me, playing these old games because a jolt of nostalgia that quickly passes. Sure, it is fun to play a round of MoO2 or MoM, but that gets old quick - particularly when I have something like Distant Worlds sitting on my hard drive. The only thing I really can't get the same "fix" with is X-Com - there are decent clones, but not nearly the same.
Son_of_Montfort  "Slander is a poison which extinguishes charity, both in the slanderer and in the persons who listen to it." Bernard of Clairvaux
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| 20 SEP 2010 at 11:19pm |
Herman HumCenturion
Posts : 887
Joined: 28 JUL 2006
Location: 0
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MarkShot
(1) DOS proves in many ways to be a lowest common denominator and fairly easy to emulate in the kernel of things like XP and Win7 upon today's modern hardware. Old Windows systems are more involved. The standard VM (virtual machines) work fine for them, but not for the multi-media aspect of older games.
Thanks, that was very helpful and informative. GhostRyder often talks about how modern games don't follow the protocols set out by SDKs (I think) which cause problems with things like DRM. I wonder if it is possible to write a modern game that will be stable across many OS if all the requisite protocols are followed? Or, is this only possible if the game does not use all the modern accoutrements like graphics and sound capabilities?
The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.
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| 21 SEP 2010 at 5:01am |
TeeBeeCenturion
Posts : 348
Joined: 8 MAR 2009
Status : Offline | There's some new info on GOG.com, but not much. My reading is that the closing down might be for reals. Possibly. But I hope not... I'd have wanted to buy some more games that they are selling. Such as Gothic 2.
UPDATE 20.09.2010
First of all, we apologize everyone for the whole situation and closing GOG.com. We do understand the timing for taking down the site caused confusion and many users didn't manage to download all their games. Unfortunately we had to close the service due to business and technical reasons.
At the same time we guarantee that every user who bought any game on GOG.com will be able to download all their games with bonus materials, DRM-free and as many times as they need starting this Thursday.
The official statement from GOG.com's management concerning the ongoing events is planned on Wednesday. If you want to receive further information about GOG.com, please send an email to update_media@gog.com if you're a media representative or to update_users@gog.com if you're a user without a GOG account.
If you have a GOG.com account you'll be informed about all the news concerning GOG.com.
"Blitzkrieg mit dem Fleischgewehr" --- Rammstein
"King or beggar - what's the difference? One dh'oine less." --- Iorweth
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| 21 SEP 2010 at 6:17am |
ghostryderColonel
Posts : 6934
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | Thanks, that was very helpful and informative. GhostRyder often talks about how modern games don't follow the protocols set out by SDKs (I think) which cause problems with things like DRM. I wonder if it is possible to write a modern game that will be stable across many OS if all the requisite protocols are followed? Or, is this only possible if the game does not use all the modern accoutrements like graphics and sound capabilities?
In theory yes- if you follow the sdk your game should stay compatable- but it's not just the software that needs to follow it but also the hardware- cheap hardware from china and Korea often don't- like the 8800GT as an example- or a lot of motherboards, power supplies, etc-
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| 21 SEP 2010 at 9:14am |
NefaroColonel
Posts : 4640
Joined: 6 OCT 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jarhead0331
I don't really care what is being changed, if anything. I just want to recover my investment.
The fact that there was no announcement, or no warning of any kind is completely reprehensible. Regardless of who is at fault...be it GOG or some other entity that acquired them.
Let this be a lesson to everyone about DRM-heavy "rental" games.
If you require an internet server to download/activate/install your games, and/or install spy-adware along with games, you've purchased.. this can happen easier than you think.
Imagine if this were Steam, EA, Gamersgate, or any of the many others who actually have DRM that requires use of the internet and notably their servers. Depending on other people and, notably, companies to always be there 24-7-365 is a huge mistake as shown by the latest incident.
At least GoG sold games that could be backed up and installed from that backup. Which is what everyone should do (and be able to do).
Some of you think I've been crying wolf and being overly dramatic about the new DRM pestilence but the evidence keeps piling up. Buyer beware. And make backups.
__________________________
Are you brave enough for 640kb?
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| 21 SEP 2010 at 9:49am |
dwtheriaultCenturion
Posts : 26
Joined: 6 MAR 2009
Location: US
Status : Offline | at least we now know when there will be an update but worthless video, IMO. It sure doesn't look like an ad for a company that is shutting down, or is it me????
UPDATE 21.09.2010
We confirm that the official statement from GOG.com's management concerning the ongoing events will take place on Wednesday at 12 p.m. EDT (6 p.m. CET)
Thanks for being with us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDRvuKjissQ
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| 21 SEP 2010 at 10:16am |
sandman2575Centurion
Posts : 449
Joined: 4 JUL 2008
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By son_of_montfort
Unfortunately for me, playing these old games because a jolt of nostalgia that quickly passes. Sure, it is fun to play a round of MoO2 or MoM, but that gets old quick - particularly when I have something like Distant Worlds sitting on my hard drive. The only thing I really can't get the same "fix" with is X-Com - there are decent clones, but not nearly the same.
SoM, just wanted to say that you've summed up perfectly my own thinking about this. Although i understand why folks who are fans of GoG are upset about this unexpected turn of events (esp. the idea of not having access to games you paid for!), I myself have never used GoG for exactly the reasons you mention... Good as so many Old Games were, I find it impossible to go back to them. I love the feeling of nostalgia for old games from the 80s and 90s I spent many hours playing... but if I were to actually fire up Microprose Gunship, I'd last about 5 minutes.. anyway, just my $0.02
"Well, if this is it, old boy, I hope you don't mind I go out speaking the King's?" - Lt. Archie Hicox
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