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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:07am |
DBevesCommander
Posts : 1303
Joined: 26 OCT 2004
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By pvthudson01
John Tiller has released a new Panzer Campaigns game. Kharkov ’43 is the new title. The price is 40 bucks but the big news is he has gone digital download. Each purchase comes with 10 activations.
If I am not mistaken some things are new in this version. First off the mouse wheel scroll up or down changes the map and now there are sound effects when a unit moves.
There are 30 scenarios in total including eight campaigns, each Explicit Supply capable:
[UL]Operation Star – 149 turnsOperation Gallop – 179 turnsThe Initial Soviet Offensive – Operation Star & Gallop – 179 turnsDrive on Belgorod – Golikov’s Right Hook – 57 turnsManstein’s Backhand Blow – The German Riposte – 69 turnsStemming the Flow – Vatutins Desperation – 99 turnsManstein Pushes North – The Road to Kursk – 129 turnsKharkov Envelopment – Disaster on the Donets – 80 turns [/UL]
its 10 Downloads not activations - 1 licence = 1 computer ... so those of that Ilk should take note ... you want to run the DD on two computers - you have to buy two.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:12am |
Epee1Commander
Posts : 1218
Joined: 31 MAY 2005
Status : Offline | Too bad they just didn't use the same licensing that Matrix uses, a serial number, and be done with it.
Combat Command The Forgotten Gamers
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:12am |
cmurphyCenturion
Posts : 529
Joined: 25 JUL 2010
Location: US, Boston
Status : Offline | is there an 'activation' process?.. one computer for a population that plays on both their desktop and laptops?
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:12am |
junk2driveCenturion
Posts : 986
Joined: 5 JUN 2005
Location: US, az
Status : Offline | What is the DRM method?
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:13am |
benparkCenturion
Posts : 686
Joined: 22 SEP 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | It is by serial number. You also get 9 extra re-downloads in case you lose your game files 9 times. No activation beyond entering your serial #.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:17am |
pvthudson01Centurion
Posts : 64
Joined: 14 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Serial code correct. Easy as pie. Some nice engine changes too like sound effects for moving units and scrolling mouse wheel map
Visit my blog
[link]http://hudshideout.com/blog/[/link]
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:26am |
pvthudson01Centurion
Posts : 64
Joined: 14 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Just posted:
http://forums.gamesquad...g-forward...&bt=2638
With the release today of Panzer Campaigns: Kharkov '43 from John Tiller Software a new page has turned. This new title marks the beginning of a self-publishing effort by the JTS team as opposed to publishing through HPS Simulations. It also marks the beginning of Digital Downloads being offered for the current John Tiller products.
John TIller is still associated with HPS in that all existing software is still supported and will continue to be updated for the foreseeable future. All new content will go out over the new site however. HPS will continue to publish software from Scott Hamilton, Paul Bruffell & Jim Lunsford going forward & new material is slated to be making appearances in the not so distant future.
Visit my blog
[link]http://hudshideout.com/blog/[/link]
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:38am |
Bison36Colonel
Posts : 6360
Joined: 31 MAR 2009
Location: US, Sweet Air of Freedom
Status : Offline | This was really a matter of time before a DD version was offered. Does this mean no more new games on CD?
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations - James Madison
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:42am |
jjdenverCenturion
Posts : 260
Joined: 22 FEB 2008
Status : Offline | Ah that's really too bad. You can only install on one PC? I buy a new PC every 18 months so that means I'd have to re-buy the game every 18 months. Makes no sense.
Do they still sell CD's?
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:46am |
djfreer2509@yahoo.comCenturion
Posts : 2
Joined: 3 DEC 2010
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By jjdenver
Ah that's really too bad. You can only install on one PC? I buy a new PC every 18 months so that means I'd have to re-buy the game every 18 months. Makes no sense.
Do they still sell CD's?
Guys,
Please understand the new activation system is on one PC at a time.
If you get a new PC just uninstall the program off your old PC and your key is able to activate on your new machine....
No need to rebuy the software...
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:52am |
cmurphyCenturion
Posts : 529
Joined: 25 JUL 2010
Location: US, Boston
Status : Offline | Gonna lose a lot of sales with that! I think that probably hurt Scourge of War's sales a bit..
Does it have the ability to activate/deactivate with out uninstalling? For someone that plays on a desktop/laptop?
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:52am |
Bison36Colonel
Posts : 6360
Joined: 31 MAR 2009
Location: US, Sweet Air of Freedom
Status : Offline | Ok, so I purchased my game, installed it, and activated it. It wasn't hard. But now I want to install it on a second computer I have, or on my work computer. Can I do that?
No you cannot. This is not a good move at all. I'm sorry, I love Tiller games, but this is a bad move. Period. The great thing about Tiller games is you can install on multiple computers. Desktop for home use and lappy for the road and play the games or keep a PBEM match going no issue. No anymore. Single computer support is worse than the e-license from Battlefront IMO. At least with e-license you can install on multiple computers. Who cares if you get 10 downloads if you can only put on one computer at a time? So I go on 5 trips do the uninstall and reinstall process, that's 10 downloads. Now what? Am I out of luck? Sorry. The digital download is good, but some of the limitations is not.
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations - James Madison
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 7:53am |
SteveskiCenturion
Posts : 360
Joined: 16 MAR 2008
Status : Offline | Is it KHarkov 43 that has the map mods and interface mods? While this seems to be good news I just can't seem to get past how ugly the map and terrain look in these games.
We have nothing to fear but beer itself.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:29am |
rahamyCommander
Posts : 1304
Joined: 6 MAR 2008
Location: US, VA
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Bison36
Ok, so I purchased my game, installed it, and activated it. It wasn't hard. But now I want to install it on a second computer I have, or on my work computer. Can I do that?
No you cannot. This is not a good move at all. I'm sorry, I love Tiller games, but this is a bad move. Period. The great thing about Tiller games is you can install on multiple computers. Desktop for home use and lappy for the road and play the games or keep a PBEM match going no issue. No anymore. Single computer support is worse than the e-license from Battlefront IMO. At least with e-license you can install on multiple computers. Who cares if you get 10 downloads if you can only put on one computer at a time? So I go on 5 trips do the uninstall and reinstall process, that's 10 downloads. Now what? Am I out of luck? Sorry. The digital download is good, but some of the limitations is not.
The download limit is simply there if you get an interruption in your download process for any reason and need to grab it again - or loose a file, etc. Once you have it downloaded you do not need to do so again under normal circumstances. You are issued your serial number and can then use it and the download to get running on any computer.
We hear your complaints loud and clear, but allowing unlimited installs with a single serial number is problematic. What's to stop a guy from buying a single copy and sharing with all his friends? I'm not saying the current implementation is it, and there's no chance of adjustments, but I would not expect there to be any radical alterations to it either. We're trying to walk a line of being unintrusive to the gamer, so you can jump in and start playing asap - but also at the same time protecting our investment so we can continue to publish wargames.
At this time there is no intention of offering a physical CD option as that is easily created by the player once the file is downloaded, if they wish.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:38am |
cmurphyCenturion
Posts : 529
Joined: 25 JUL 2010
Location: US, Boston
Status : Offline | You should offer 2 or 3 activations per key.. or have an activate/deactivate option in the game (like scourge - it sucks but at least you can play on both of your computers)
with this model.. I'm not purchasing anymore Tiller Titles!
Don't 'screw' your paying 'fan base'!
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:44am |
CatghCenturion
Posts : 42
Joined: 26 FEB 2004
Status : Offline | I am out until I get 2-3 activations.
Ron
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:45am |
tevansCenturion
Posts : 94
Joined: 3 MAR 2008
Status : Online | As far as I'm concerned all Tiller did was cut his own throat. I won't be purchasing any titles with that kind of DRM. I don't like limits and I don't like asking for permission to use something that I buy. Another great series of games down the toilet due to DRM. What happened to the idea of when you spent money for something it was yours?
One other thing. Why isn't Tiller on here explaining how the system works? He wants our money but doesn't feel the need to communicate with us directly. It's always second hand through a spokesperson. Tell ya what I'm going to do. I'm gonna get in touch with Chris Dean at NWS, get the titles I'm missing in my collection and then forget all about Tiller. Companies, publishers and developers that use DRM systems that limit a customer who purchased a product deserve to be forgotten.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:46am |
sabre31Centurion
Posts : 254
Joined: 17 MAY 2005
Status : Offline | I agree when I saw this thread I was so ready to just jump and purchase the game. For one I am really glad it finally sold via digital download but I will not buy it with this DRM. At a minimum you should allow a Desktop and Laptop install (so 2 activations) and than have an option to deactivate or activate a game at will without uninstall or reinstall. Most DRM vendors even guys like EA allow this who are even worse with DRM. Another reason why I continue to support Matrix Games they know how to do DRM right and none of this nonsene treat everybody like a crook. Why doesn't Matrix worry about DRM and the rest do so much? I am all for supporting publishers who treat their customers like honest folk. This is like me renting a book from the library, if I am renting a game the price should be $9.99 or less since I don't own it. What is Tiller shuts down his servers after 2 years what do I do with my games toss them out?
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 8:47am |
BarthheartCenturion
Posts : 556
Joined: 24 OCT 2005
Location: CA, Ontario
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By rahamy
...
We hear your complaints loud and clear, but allowing unlimited installs with a single serial number is problematic. What's to stop a guy from buying a single copy and sharing with all his friends? ...
Matrix games has been using this model, unlimited installs, for years and they seem to be making money just fine......
You come into the world cold, wet, and screaming... there's no reason not to go out the same way! - annual River Rat canoe trip slogan.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 9:31am |
ComradePColonel
Posts : 6889
Joined: 1 JUL 2006
Location: NL
Status : Offline | I had hoped draconian DRM schemes would never appear in wargames.
Realistically, how many niche wargamers will share the title "with all their friends"? I wish my friends would play wargames to begin with!
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 9:45am |
tooncesCommander
Posts : 2322
Joined: 21 MAR 2006
Status : Offline | The Matrixgames system works so well.
I don't see why people can't stop trying to reinvent the wheel with DRM.
No way will I be purchasing a game with this kind of BS on it.
"I am always fondling my nut sack, just to be safe. " - bboyer66
"It's like Mount and Blade got together with Total War and had a game baby." - Bison36 on Real Warfare Northern Crusades
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 9:55am |
DBevesCommander
Posts : 1303
Joined: 26 OCT 2004
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By cmurphy
You should offer 2 or 3 activations per key.. or have an activate/deactivate option in the game (like scourge - it sucks but at least you can play on both of your computers)
with this model.. I'm not purchasing anymore Tiller Titles!
Don't 'screw' your paying 'fan base'!
Thats the solution to the complaints I believe ...
I have to say I think the Matrix solution is the best way to go ... there is of course always the possibility of accepting the fact that 99% of the core fan base for these games will not under any circumstances pirate it ... I could quite easily get pirate copies of SOME matrix games but I dont. The remaining 1% would never have bought in the first place ...
It is also a fact - as I did some unofficial research a while back on this that you simply dont find HPS games on pirate websites - ok - you need the CD but that is a crack most pirates laugh at and they have been available for a long time. I didnt for example - despite prolonged searching find WiTp AE for example - and that is not because the matrix system is crack proof.
We know the market we live in and are only too aware that we would be shooting ourselves in the head if we pirated these games. Other than that I simply dont think this kind of hard core wargame is poular enough to actually be a target for pirates in the first place.
The point is the Matrix system is barely a DRM at all ... it wont stop the - "lets give it to all my friends scenario for example" - so I dont think thats why you dont see them that much on pirate sites. All it does is give Matrix the opportunity to block a serial number should it be found in use as a pirate copy.
Perhaps the point is that I can see at least five or six lost sales on this post alone - perhaps you could look at wargamers as a breed apart from the norm - and we have a love of our hobby that goes beyond greed and getting something for nothing and have the honour to be trusted to buy the thing.
I think you are over estimating the interest in pirating the game in the first place and by doing so - apparently destroyning the fan base you actually have.
I bought the game - DRM or no DRM - it simply doesnt bother me enough not to. there are some principles I make a stand on but DRM doesnt really get my hackles up - it is what it is and I am certainly not going to deprive myself of the game simply because of it - but it would be a pity if they disappeared due to a misplaced lack of trust in your fanbase.
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 10:14am |
0kult13Centurion
Posts : 482
Joined: 16 JUL 2010
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I suprised hps wasted money on the whole activation thing, pirates just arnt intrested along with %99.9 of the gaming population with these sort of games even if they could dl them for free. One advantage of a niche market. Added to that the sort of gamer who plays these wont spend alot of time on torrent sites.
All your base are belong to us
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| 3 DEC 2010 at 10:30am |
Slick WilhelmCenturion
Posts : 918
Joined: 11 SEP 2007
Location: US, Minnesota
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By rahamy
We hear your complaints loud and clear, but allowing unlimited installs with a single serial number is problematic. What's to stop a guy from buying a single copy and sharing with all his friends? I'm not saying the current implementation is it, and there's no chance of adjustments, but I would not expect there to be any radical alterations to it either. We're trying to walk a line of being unintrusive to the gamer, so you can jump in and start playing asap - but also at the same time protecting our investment so we can continue to publish wargames.
You sound like a nice guy, rahamy, but allow me to point out that if you alienate your core clientele you won't have an investment to protect.
As a serious wargamer, my needs are to have each game I purchase installed onto my home gaming rig, and on my laptop, at the same time. Any company that will not allow me to do that loses me as a customer.
Beta Tester: Brother Against Brother; Commander: The Great War
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