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Topic: Dont Ask Dont Tell Dead!

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All Forums : [GENERAL] : General Discussion > Dont Ask Dont Tell Dead!
18 DEC 2010 at 2:45pm

Otis Campbell

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ABOUT TIME!

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19 DEC 2010 at 4:36pm

Mark

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I disagree. But anyway... I understand they'll be remaking the movie the 300, this time to star Richard Simmons. "This is Sparta, silly! And you're dressed as a Spring, and after Labor Day! Oh, and those nails..."
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19 DEC 2010 at 5:09pm

Seytan

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Homosexuality played a big part in Sparta. I strongly recommend you read some material on Sparta as it relates to this subject before you fly off the cuff.           In respect to dont ask dont tell ending, with Gay marriage generally in wide acceptance the barrier regarding the military was bound to crumble, its a fact of life that we live in a age and time when this type of sexual preferance is accepted by many people.           Do I personally agree they should have done away with it? No...I believe that dont ask dont tell was the perfect middle ground.          
Originally Posted By Mark
        I disagree.         But anyway...         I understand they'll be remaking the movie the 300, this time to star Richard Simmons.         "This is Sparta, silly! And you're dressed as a Spring, and after Labor Day! Oh, and those nails..."    
   

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19 DEC 2010 at 5:44pm

Martok

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Personally, I'm fine with it.  It's not like the armed forces are going to be suddenly inundated by men wearing pink clothing and espousing the qualities of Barbara Streisand.  [
Originally Posted By Mark
I understand they'll be remaking the movie the 300, this time to star Richard Simmons. "This is Sparta, silly! And you're dressed as a Spring, and after Labor Day! Oh, and those nails..."
Well it's not like it would make the movie any more horrible than it already is.... 

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19 DEC 2010 at 7:54pm

ActionJack

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Homosexuality played a big part in Sparta. I strongly recommend you read some material on Sparta as it relates to this subject before you fly off the cuff.
    Homosexuality or child molestation?  I don't think pederasty advocated same-sex marriage.

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19 DEC 2010 at 8:07pm

Jarhead0331

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All this means is that fewer homosexuals will actually join the military because its no longer illegal and it will no longer piss off conservatives.

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20 DEC 2010 at 2:31pm

Greybriar

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Originally Posted By Jarhead0331
All this means is that fewer homosexuals will actually join the military because its no longer illegal and it will no longer piss off conservatives.
+1

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20 DEC 2010 at 2:38pm

admtahoe

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Being prior military the last thing I would want is having some guy in the shower checking me out. I realize ANYONE can help in the military environment on a battlefield; my concern is sleeping quarters and showers. If they want to let homosexuals in the military they might a well allow males to shower with the women, because in reality there would be no difference. It's not any different for me to shower with a woman than it is for a homosexual to shower with the guys. Community showers?

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20 DEC 2010 at 3:19pm

vonkohlmann

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Originally Posted By admtahoe
        Being prior military the last thing I would want is having some guy in the shower checking me out.    
        But now you would know who is checking you out. Isn't that better?

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20 DEC 2010 at 7:43pm

Sigma One

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A soldier, no matter their race, sex, sexual preference or religion, as long as they do their duty in the line of fire then I have no problem with them. I'm glad they did away with it, we're not living in the past anymore. 

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20 DEC 2010 at 8:59pm

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Originally Posted By Sigma One
        A soldier, no matter their race, sex, sexual preference or religion, as long as they do their duty in the line of fire then I have no problem with them. I'm glad they did away with it, we're not living in the past anymore.     
        How would you provide equal treatment?           Does the homosexual get his own room while the others live 2 or 3 men per room?           Does the homosexual get his own berthing space on ship while the others live 30-50 per berthing space?           Does the homosexual get to share berthing spaces with other homosexuals?           This isn't a question of living in the past, it is a question of increasing the military budget to equally billet all sexual preferences.           Do we discriminate against the non homosexuals in the armed services by not allowing them to have thier own living space?           How much are we willing to cut spending on weapons platforms in order to have equal treatment?           How do you conduct initial training for recruits?

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20 DEC 2010 at 9:38pm

Sigma One

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Homosexuals should be treated as soldiers in that if they're male, they are billeted as a male soldier and female soldier accordingly. 

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20 DEC 2010 at 9:45pm

Bloodypage

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Originally Posted By Greybriar
       
Originally Posted By Jarhead0331
        All this means is that fewer homosexuals will actually join the military because its no longer illegal and it will no longer piss off conservatives.    
        +1    
    +1 (If that were the case fewer gays will be joining the military)            But honestly I think this whole thing has made the US military in the biggest laughing stock in the world. Now the nomenclature will be fighting against the "gayest military in the world".
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20 DEC 2010 at 9:53pm

bboyer66

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 Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.

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20 DEC 2010 at 9:54pm

bboyer66

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Originally Posted By Bloodypage
Originally Posted By Greybriar
Originally Posted By Jarhead0331
All this means is that fewer homosexuals will actually join the military because its no longer illegal and it will no longer piss off conservatives.
+1
+1 (If that were the case fewer gays will be joining the military)    But honestly I think this whole thing has made the US military in the biggest laughing stock in the world. Now the nomenclature will be fighting against the "gayest military in the world".
 Ya, good informed post. Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, the United Kingdom, France, and Russia permit gay people to serve openly. The United States is currently in the process of integrating openly gay people into its military. Nations that permit gay people to serve openly in the military include the Republic of China (Taiwan), Australia, Israel, Argentina, Canada, all member states of the European Union and every original NATO signatory except Turkey

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20 DEC 2010 at 10:01pm

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Originally Posted By bboyer66
         Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.    
        I'm not looking at it from that perspective, only from the fiscal perspective.           If every servicemember gets his or her own private room, there is no problem. Can we afford this? Instead of having 40-50 recruits in a squadbay with one bathroom you would need 40-50 private rooms/bathrooms.           As you are fully aware of, getting the servicemember to the fight is the hardest aspect of a standing Army.           When you were a PFC, in garrison, how would you have felt living with 3 to 4 other men while another PFC had his own room/bathroom? Do you think cohesion would have been possible?

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20 DEC 2010 at 10:07pm

Smuckatelli

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Originally Posted By Sigma One
        Homosexuals should be treated as soldiers in that if they're male, they are billeted as a male soldier and female soldier accordingly.     
        Very easy to say but difficult to carry out. By billeting homosexuals with thier sexual preferences you are showing favoritism.......you are effectively distroying unit cohesion when someone in the unit gets preferential treatment.           Like I said earlier....if every servicemember gets his own private room/bathroom....no problem.           BTW, what is 'Editor in Chief'?

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:03pm

ActionJack

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Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.
    Wrong answer!  The military chooses who wears the uniform and not the other way around.  Period!  There are requirements and there are standards; you either meet them or you don't.  'Want' got nothing to do with it.

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."  Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

 

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:03pm

jnier

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Originally Posted By bboyer66
 Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.
Well put.

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:05pm

bboyer66

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Originally Posted By Smuckatelli
Originally Posted By bboyer66
 Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.
I'm not looking at it from that perspective, only from the fiscal perspective.   If every servicemember gets his or her own private room, there is no problem. Can we afford this? Instead of having 40-50 recruits in a squadbay with one bathroom you would need 40-50 private rooms/bathrooms.   As you are fully aware of, getting the servicemember to the fight is the hardest aspect of a standing Army.   When you were a PFC, in garrison, how would you have felt living with 3 to 4 other men while another PFC had his own room/bathroom? Do you think cohesion would have been possible?
  I totally understand where your coming from. The question is do they get there own separate rooms  etc? Im not sure they do. But hasn't the Navy set the precedence of making special rooms for women on there warships?  Surely this is something that does not make the Navy more cost effective or efficient. This whole repeal in no way makes the Military a more effective fighting force, nor is it cost efficient.  It does however reflect the makeup of American society.  Off topic, a female congress woman who was trying to integrate females (Schroeder I think it was?) actually stopped to look inside my tank at Grafenwoehr gunnery range. She asked me if I thought women could be tankers, I told her maybe 1 in 50. I showed her how I could load a 120mm Heat round (70 pounds) in 3 seconds (Video of it being done slowly), and said let me see a female do that. Also I explained to her that just the common maintenance on an M1 required a pretty high level of strength, and what happened if I needed to be dragged out of the tank by my web gear. Was a 125 pound girl going to be able to haul my 205 pound ass out of a burning vehicle?  Anyways, maybe we could make elite gay units who specialize in parades or something? Lord knows I sucked at keeping my boots shiny and uniform pressed.

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:06pm

ActionJack

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If every servicemember gets his or her own private room, there is no problem. Can we afford this? Instead of having 40-50 recruits in a squadbay with one bathroom you would need 40-50 private rooms/bathrooms.
    The pentagon has already shot this down.  There will be no othe separations than there already are.  No separate living quarters or shower arrangements.  The whole thing is to be done with 'training'.  Glad I'm out!

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."  Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

 

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:10pm

ActionJack

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Well put.
    Poorly put and beyond reality.  All vets should understand that much.  The military is not just a place for employment and not everybody is either eligible, wanted or needed.  In WWII we had a need so great that standards were diminished, a voluteer military does not do away with standards of eligibility or conduct.  Regardless of sexual orientation, not everybody can serve.

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."  Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

 

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:15pm

bboyer66

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Originally Posted By ActionJack
Anyone who is a citizen of the US and wants to fight,and can pass the standard male physical fitness standard, should be able to fight. Plain and simple.
Wrong answer!  The military chooses who wears the uniform and not the other way around.  Period!  There are requirements and there are standards; you either meet them or you don't.  'Want' got nothing to do with it.
      It is a volunteer military, so WANT has a lot to do with it.    I wish the military chose who wore the uniform (based on combat performance and efficiency), but that is not the case. The courts, congress,and the Commander in Chief decide who wears the uniform. There is a reason females only have to do 13 push ups minimum, while males have to do 48. 

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:21pm

bboyer66

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Originally Posted By ActionJack
Well put.
Poorly put and beyond reality.  All vets should understand that much.  The military is not just a place for employment and not everybody is either eligible, wanted or needed.  In WWII we had a need so great that standards were diminished, a voluteer military does not do away with standards of eligibility or conduct.  Regardless of sexual orientation, not everybody can serve.
  Who said anything about getting rid of standards. The question is should sexual orientation be a standard. How do straight female soldiers deal with lesbians, and let me tell you there are quite a few of them.

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20 DEC 2010 at 11:31pm

Sigma One

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Originally Posted By Smuckatelli
Originally Posted By Sigma One
Homosexuals should be treated as soldiers in that if they're male, they are billeted as a male soldier and female soldier accordingly. 
Very easy to say but difficult to carry out. By billeting homosexuals with thier sexual preferences you are showing favoritism.......you are effectively distroying unit cohesion when someone in the unit gets preferential treatment.   Like I said earlier....if every servicemember gets his own private room/bathroom....no problem.   BTW, what is 'Editor in Chief'?
What I was saying was that no matter the sexual preference, males are billeted with males, females with females. I'm sorry, I should have made it clearer. As for 'Editor in Chief', I just recently joined the WG staff, you'll be seeing some more stuff put up by me on the front page
 

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