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Topic: Is A No Fly Zone In Libya A Good Idea ?

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All Forums : [GENERAL] : General Discussion : Current Events > Is A No Fly Zone In Libya A Good Idea ?

#1 7 MAR 2011 at 12:39pm
MIGMaster Commander Posts : 2123 Joined: 4 MAY 2003 Status : Offline	The more I think about this the trickier it becomes. What do you guys think ? "We like our women like our gaming - Hardcore !" LongBlade, circa 2008
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#2 7 MAR 2011 at 12:42pm
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	I voted for 'no intervention.' I think it's a catch-22 over there. The US is The Great Satan no matter what it does. I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#3 7 MAR 2011 at 12:45pm
UKyank Centurion Posts : 812 Joined: 13 FEB 2005 Status : Offline	If a substantial number of other countries would join in such an endeavor then perhaps. I do not see any signs of this happening, and the pluses for the U.S. to take such an action alone could only have negative consequences for the US in my opinion
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#4 7 MAR 2011 at 1:10pm
ActionJack Colonel Posts : 7881 Joined: 19 SEP 2005 Status : Offline	Not if it gives incentive to Saudi dissidents by giving them reason to believe that the U.S. or NATO will intervene on their behalf. "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850
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#5 7 MAR 2011 at 1:34pm
Azzurri Banned for 15393 days Posts : 9755 Joined: 24 NOV 2009 Location: 0, Kentucky Status : Offline	Stay the f88k out! We got our hands full enough. They'll sort it out. One way or another. It is better to die by a swords quick thrust than to be impaled for a lifetime upon the sharp tongue of a woman.-Grimjack
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#6 7 MAR 2011 at 1:44pm
bayonetbrant Colonel Posts : 7052 Joined: 18 MAR 2007 Status : Offline	As Pat Buchanan put it on TV today - if you're going to enforce a no-fly zone, you gotta be sure this ends with Ghadaffi going down. Otherwise, you just set up a no-fly zone that he ignored and still won his civil war. As soon as you start picking sides, you better pick the winner. If you're not sure, don't pick one, especially if you don't want to get into the business of helping one side win. Check out GrogNews for wargaming / mil news. http://grognews.blogspot.com
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#7 7 MAR 2011 at 2:38pm
Martok Colonel Posts : 4019 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	I think there should be a no-fly zone established, but I don't think we should be the ones to do it. As most everyone else has said, the U.S. getting involved -- at least & especially unilaterally -- would be a singularly bad idea. "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#8 7 MAR 2011 at 2:59pm
Steelgrave Colonel Posts : 3319 Joined: 1 DEC 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	If the French and British want to take their shared aircraft carrier and establish a no-fly zone, let them feel free. But America needs to stay far, far away. We have our hands full already, and besides, I just don't see any way that intervention in Libya works out to our benefit. We're gonna be hated no matter what, so why add fuel to the fire? "When in danger, or in doubt.....run in circles, scream and shout!!!", author Herman Wouk.
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#9 7 MAR 2011 at 4:54pm
Gusington General Posts : 18089 Joined: 16 AUG 2004 Location: US, USMA Status : Offline	The Italians have always had an affinity for North Africa...let them do it. I'm glad my character uses a shield because I may be taking a bashing here soon. - Rayfer
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#10 8 MAR 2011 at 5:19am
Eyebiter Commander Posts : 1231 Joined: 28 DEC 2004 Status : Offline	Once you start intervention by air, it's only a matter of time before ground forces to maintain order will be required. The United Nations currently has 15 peacekeeping missions active worldwide. Let the European and African nations send their troops to Libya to maintain order. Buy your share of freedom... today!
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#11 8 MAR 2011 at 6:18am
yossarian Commander Posts : 1119 Joined: 14 OCT 2004 Status : Offline	ha ha Berlusconi's been quiet about all this, he was sending Italian women over to Libya last year to court high flying men. In return Ghaddafi came to Italy to give a lecture on Islam to an arranged assembly of Italian female models from an agency. The funny thing is they all just left rather bemused and confused. Is these guys sinister fkers or what? Berlusconi seems to facilitate s3xual fantasies for his mates. Ghaddaffi's fantasy dream being to stand infront of 300 female Italian catholic beauties and extoll the virtues of Islam. lol, get the fk out of here you freak
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#12 8 MAR 2011 at 6:43am
pawelj Commander Posts : 2866 Joined: 17 SEP 2003 Location: UK, London Status : Offline	First of all the US and Britain have an unfinished business regarding Libya over the Lockerbee bombing. That alone would be enough to justify a full scale invasion to get the criminal. But since there is a quite a substential uprising going all we need is a some air support, weapons supplies and some instructors and air controllers. We make sure that the side we pick wins. And let's not involve the Saudis this time. "...One Nation, Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All."
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#13 8 MAR 2011 at 7:09am
ComradeP Colonel Posts : 6889 Joined: 1 JUL 2006 Location: NL Status : Offline	There are only losers in a civil war. If Gaddafi "wins", he'll still be hated and his regime will become more brutal, inciting more hatred. If the rebels "win" they'll be closely watched by the population and international scene and won't be able to install a police state, which means pro-Gaddafi hardliners will continue to cause problems as a crackdown won't be an option. We'll see similar situations to what happened after Saddam was removed from power.
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#14 8 MAR 2011 at 7:57am
Centurion40 General Posts : 10892 Joined: 31 OCT 2003 Location: CA, Halifax Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Gusington* The Italians have always had an affinity for North Africa...let them do it. Bingo! As much as a part of me would LOVE to see video of a bunch of leathernecks singing their theme song in Tripoli, our Med. friends should be the ones doing "anything"... if anything is going to be done. Italians, French, Spanish, Greeks (not that they are in any position), Turks... they are the ones who should intervene, if anyone is going to..... "I love Anne Hathaway and her penchant for nudity." -The Dawg of Metal
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#15 8 MAR 2011 at 9:14am
pawelj Commander Posts : 2866 Joined: 17 SEP 2003 Location: UK, London Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By ComradeP* There are only losers in a civil war. If Gaddafi "wins", he'll still be hated and his regime will become more brutal, inciting more hatred. If the rebels "win" they'll be closely watched by the population and international scene and won't be able to install a police state, which means pro-Gaddafi hardliners will continue to cause problems as a crackdown won't be an option. We'll see similar situations to what happened after Saddam was removed from power. Completely disagree. Libya is different then Iraq. Removing Saddam was a positive development, and the problems there were caused primarely by the longevity and brutality if his rule. In Libya the population would be winners when the Gaddafi is removed. And if the de-Gaddafication is allowed to be done swftly, then Libya should have a possibility of a bright future. Allowing Gaddafi to remain in power removes this possibility indefinately. The West should have a bit of cunning and balls to advance the casuse of freedom an at the same time improving economic and political stability in the region. "...One Nation, Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All."
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#16 8 MAR 2011 at 9:22am
ActionJack Colonel Posts : 7881 Joined: 19 SEP 2005 Status : Offline	The West should have a bit of cunning and balls to advance the casuse of freedom an at the same time improving economic and political stability in the region. If such an agenda trumps sovereignty then could not other countries with different system argue the same for their attempts to undermine the West or the U.S.? Could not Iran use a similar argument to justify their terrorist ties and use of terrorist cells as proxies in their attacks against the U.S.? Would 9-11 also be justified by this line of reasoning? My view is that unless it is in direct interests of the U.S. or NATO no action should be taken. If the justification is to 'free all people' we generally regard as unfree then Muslim radicals could use the same reasoning. "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850
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#17 8 MAR 2011 at 11:04am
Marty Ward Colonel Posts : 4969 Joined: 14 DEC 2005 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By bayonetbrant* As Pat Buchanan put it on TV today - if you're going to enforce a no-fly zone, you gotta be sure this ends with Ghadaffi going down. Otherwise, you just set up a no-fly zone that he ignored and still won his civil war. As soon as you start picking sides, you better pick the winner. If you're not sure, don't pick one, especially if you don't want to get into the business of helping one side win. Or as Buchanan said "What would be the purpose of establishing a no-fly zone over Libya? According to advocates, to keep Moammar Gadhafi from using his air force to attack civilians. But if Gadhafi uses tanks to crush the rebellion, as Nikita Khrushchev did in Hungary and the Chinese did in Tiananmen Square, would that be OK? What is the moral distinction between using planes to kill rebels and running over them with tanks? Do we Americans just want to see a fair fight?" http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42181
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#18 8 MAR 2011 at 11:14am
Smuckatelli Colonel Posts : 7965 Joined: 8 JUN 2004 Location: US Status : Offline	In order to enforce a no fly zone....his air defenses would have to be taken out. It's war no matter how you say it.
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#19 8 MAR 2011 at 11:20am
Marty Ward Colonel Posts : 4969 Joined: 14 DEC 2005 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Smuckatelli* In order to enforce a no fly zone....his air defenses would have to be taken out. It's war no matter how you say it. And as Buchanan titles the above article, It's Their War Not Our's.
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#20 8 MAR 2011 at 3:05pm
mad_max_usmc Centurion Posts : 115 Joined: 27 NOV 2006 Status : Online	Interesting article over at the Small Wars Journal website today states that a Libyan no fly zone would be ineffective, for many of the reasons given above. Article then goes on to state that the most effective thing the US could do to oust Ghaddafi would be to resurrect Operation Jawbreaker, the CIA assist to the Afghan Northern Alliance in 2001-2. The Libyan rebels need real time intel, better AA/AT ordnance, and Stinger teams, which is what the CIA paramilitary forces provided to the Afghans fighting the Taliban. Of course, the air-delivered ordnance that blew the Taliban off their hilltop positions helped a bit, too...
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#21 8 MAR 2011 at 8:30pm
mscano Commander Posts : 1524 Joined: 29 DEC 2006 Location: US, New York Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Gusington* The Italians have always had an affinity for North Africa...let them do it. Amen! Let Europe handle this one for a change.
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#22 8 MAR 2011 at 10:33pm
GDS Starfury General Posts : 16394 Joined: 26 MAY 2001 Location: 0, Starbase 10 Status : Offline	this is NATO's problem, let them deal with it. my suggestion is to have a Brit start in Egypt and a German start in Tunisa and see who solves the problem first.
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#23 9 MAR 2011 at 12:17am
Martok Colonel Posts : 4019 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	^ [sm=7rotflmao.gif] "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#24 9 MAR 2011 at 12:37am
phredd1 Commander Posts : 1065 Joined: 10 SEP 2006 Status : Offline	I'm against a "no-fly zone" if only because we have our hands overly engaged elsewhere already. If Europe wants to do it, let us not stand in their way. I think only fair to let some more Western states try to become the "Great Satan", no reason the US should hog this title for all eternity. Sorta like the America's Cup, it has become more interesting now that other nations have finally won the race. Then the real cynical side comes up with another thought. Why did God let us invent the cruise missile, if we aren't going to use it? Why not force Google to give us the exact co-ordinates of the Lybian military airfields and then make the sky dark with the missiles to trash the runways? Once the tarmac is trashed no air strikes for Kaddafi. Who knows, it might even create a few more jobs to rebuild our missile stocks. Win-win. One mistake, and you're sliding down the razor blade of defeat, and a dull, rusted, and poisoned blade at that.
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#25 9 MAR 2011 at 4:41am
bayonetbrant Colonel Posts : 7052 Joined: 18 MAR 2007 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By GDS_Starfury* this is NATO's problem, let them deal with it. you do realize that the US is a part of NATO, right ? [sm=00000280.gif] Check out GrogNews for wargaming / mil news. http://grognews.blogspot.com
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All Forums : [GENERAL] : General Discussion : Current Events > Is A No Fly Zone In Libya A Good Idea ?

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Topic: Is A No Fly Zone In Libya A Good Idea ?

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