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Topic: Quickest and easiest programing language for noobs?

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All Forums : [THE GAMING PLAZA] : Game Development, Research & Modding > Quickest and easiest programing language for noobs?

#1 20 APR 2011 at 8:22am
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	I know this question may be a retread but I'm curious to know what the easiest programing language to learn is. I'm not asking because I'm lazy but because of the short bits of time I have that I can devote to learning one. I only have about a 30-45 minute block of time after work when I can sit down to learn. Throw in my touch of ADD (both organic and environmentally induced) and I often have to cover the same ground several times. I'm not looking to do this for a living, just learn enough to work on a game project I've had in my head for a while. I went through the tutorials for Gamestudio A7 last year and I've already forgotten everything so I do plan to start there. After that, what is the easiest and most useful assuming I'm interested in both 2D and 3D? Unity is another program (thanks for introducing it to us, GR!) that I'll look at once I can do more that just click buttons in an editor. I need some kind of foundation but it can be narrow with respect to both time and universality. Better a simple but restrictive tool I can use than a Rosetta Stone I'll never learn well enough to actually start using. Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#2 20 APR 2011 at 10:36am
Pak40 Centurion Posts : 640 Joined: 8 JAN 2004 Location: US Status : Offline	10 A$="I'm completely not qualified to answer this question." 20 B$="BASIC" 30 C$="the last program language I learned" 40 If C$=B$ then print A$ else goto 50 50 end run syntax error
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#3 20 APR 2011 at 12:29pm
Wertheimer Centurion Posts : 117 Joined: 7 MAR 2009 Status : Offline	I have dabbled with some different languages over the past 30 yrs. By no means an expert in any (not even close). Right now I have taken to Python which seems to be quite easy on the brain. Plus Python is used all over the place including games, 3d software packages. Stop by python.org and take a look. APRESS has some books on the subject. I am gliding through "PYTHON 3.0 for Absolute Beginners" right now. Pat W
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#4 20 APR 2011 at 2:19pm
0kult13 Centurion Posts : 482 Joined: 16 JUL 2010 Location: UK Status : Offline	Just for a bit practice of the concepts programming try vba , built in to excel and if you dont have that get open office free. You can use variables, objects (macros), arrays, ifs, loops etc. All your base are belong to us
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#5 21 APR 2011 at 2:53pm
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	Thanks for the suggestions everyone. One thing I realize after checking out some of the languages is that I need to track down a resource that actually teaches the basics inherent to all (or at least most) of them such as what the common concepts are. Pak40, I did mess around with BASIC back in the old Commodore64 and CoCo 'trash' 80 days when I'd type programs in by hand directly out of magazines such as RUN and Hot CoCo, only understanding a fraction of what I was doing. I didn't stick with it because I was in my 20s and there was Beer, Rock&Roll, an' Wimminfolk out in Them Thar Hills so learning programming got placed on hold. Had I known then how usefull it'd be I'd have given up on the Rock&Roll at least occasionally...[ ] Guess I'll start by hitting Amazon for a 'Nondenominational programming intro for N00bs' book. Hope it's easier than learning Plattdeutsch... Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#6 29 APR 2011 at 4:19pm
davidshq Centurion Posts : 354 Joined: 3 OCT 2003 Location: US, PA Status : Offline	You might want to consider subscribing for a month or two to safaribooksonline.com. For around $25/mo. you get access to hundreds of books - including on almost every imaginable programming language. As far as development language for a game goes, I would suggest looking at Microsoft's XNA as a possibility. Dave. FreeWargamer - Hutsell's Games - Dave Enjoys
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#7 3 MAY 2011 at 7:22pm
ghostryder Colonel Posts : 6934 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline	In my opinion I would stay away from any language that teaches or sways from the norm. Learning basic for example is pretty easy--but unlearning basic is a nightmare when jumping to a more mainstream language. Right now the norm is C++,C#,and the .net languages. I would choose one of them-as anything else will likely teach bad programming habits when you eventually get the norm--and if your programming you will end up in the norm sooner or later. They may be a bit more harder to learn but in the big picture your get there faster- minus all the bumps all the fray languages will create. Pyhton for example --- having whitespace as significant is just plain screwy-not to mention it's slow as molasses. In the end you want the best resources, the best speed and the best base for code examples and support- and that is the mainstrain languages mentioned. I like the .net languages for portability and speed...be it c# or Javascript- The furture will require this. Your need it to go to mobile devices, Mac, PC and the consoles--and the absolute best language for this is the .net languages. Learning them fresh is far easier without knowing other languages--especially when trying to learn and impliment OO and the like. In College I learned Assembly...and OS9, Basic and the like----and those learned concepts really made C++,C# an absolute nightmare to get down---so i would advise to skip them because in the end you will be using industry standards to do anything seriously.
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#8 3 MAY 2011 at 8:02pm
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	Thanks for the reply GR. I have gotten ahold of a PDF version of C++ Beginner's Guide (by HerbSchildt) which I've just started reading and I have a copy of C++ For Dummies (which I started first but actually seems more complicated because it starts out assuming I know things that I really don't). I've just only started so I can still switch to another language if the payoff is better. I've gathered that C# is better for cross platform but a little slower as is Java which also has good cross-platform adaptability. Should I switch gears or stick with what I have now assuming that the basics will still be there when (or IF) I move up to something else eventually? If I'm going to skip C++ should I go with Java or C#? I do know that Javascript has some issues with OSX. Does the actual Java language itself play nice? Nicer than than C#? Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#9 3 MAY 2011 at 8:23pm
Braz24 Centurion Posts : 737 Joined: 3 AUG 2006 Status : Offline	Ghostryder has much more experience at programming than I do... If it were me looking into the .NET languages, I'd go with C#. Once understood you'll be better able to learn C, C++, or even Java. From a simplicity point of view, python is pretty darn easy to learn. You can also use object oriented programming (OOP) when your programs become really large projects. In school, I learned assembly (6502, 68000, 8800 on my own but 6809 in college) and also C. C made C++ easier to get into, I thought. I taught myself C++ and did some college projects and personal projects in it as well. C++ made learning C# easy...really C# (to me) is much easier to learn than C++. Assembly language will get you thinking in terms of computer hardware more and may help remind you to write "tighter" code (more efficient code that is...). I think assembly language will take more time than diving into most other "higher" level languages out there. Good luck though1 It is definitely pretty fun when you get past the initial frame of mind and think more like a programmer. My two cents... If you learn the ins and outs of the .NET framework, then any language from Microsoft's Visual Studio is a snap, more or less.
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#10 3 MAY 2011 at 8:27pm
GJK Centurion Posts : 744 Joined: 1 FEB 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	What about VB.net? I've started to learn it and so far it's quite simple but that's where my problem is. I can go through a book and build the examples but those differ greatly from what I want to. Maybe I need a book that teaches how to implement the programming language that I've learned and not just how to make the numerous "hello world" and web browser and mortgage loan calculator examples. A couple of other that I've dabbled with which I think would work if you have a single game making project that you want to do and not worry with actually learning and using a a "real" programming language are: http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/ (gamemaker) and http://www.clickteam.com/eng/mmf2.php (Multimedia Fusion 2) The latter seeming like it could do some really nice things with moderate difficulty. P.S. A book that I want to pick up that instructs on wargame creation using MMF2: [link]http://tinyurl.com/3pjbsr9[/link] Going to War: Creating Computer War Games "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." -Dean Vernon Wormer
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#11 3 MAY 2011 at 8:29pm
Braz24 Centurion Posts : 737 Joined: 3 AUG 2006 Status : Offline	I've also read the C and C++ beginning books by Herbert Schildt. They are good and will get you up and running. The thing that makes this route a bit more time consuming is the fact that you'll then have to learn the ins and out of interface design and leaving programming in the Win32 console behind (depending on what you're programming goals are). With the .NET languages, you start with one of the languages offered and learn it while also learning to design actual windows and interfaces. Again, this is handy depending on your programming goals. If you choose programming via Java, I like the NetBeans IDE. It makes Java easier and lessens the learning curve some. some folks have said you need to learn Java without the IDE, but I did my limited Java programming with NetBeans. You may want to look into NetBeans...regardless, downloading the NetBeans IDE is free. more of my two cents... ;-)
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#12 3 MAY 2011 at 8:33pm
Braz24 Centurion Posts : 737 Joined: 3 AUG 2006 Status : Offline	VB.Net is a "real" language. Depending on the book you used, it should teach the .Net framework and the programming language itself. If the book does it's job, it'll give you the tools to get rolling on your projects and solutions. The trick is to plan things out in advance, tackle little pieces of the project at a time and eventually, you'll have a completed large project. Planning in advance is the key to making a mountain into a mole hill and it IS pretty satisfying to complete a project of almost any size. If your book is too basic, then look for intermediate to advanced books on the programming language of choice.
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#13 3 MAY 2011 at 8:39pm
Braz24 Centurion Posts : 737 Joined: 3 AUG 2006 Status : Offline	learning to program games is real (a cool) challenge! Start programming simple games like tic-tac-toe from scratch and without copying anyone else's code. You learn rudimentary graphics, some artificial intelligence and you get to cut your teeth on something you know how to play competently and can learn to program the logic in for the computer opponent to be challenging and not a walk over. Keep the first projects like tic-tac-toe (only and idea...but start simple)simple but FINISH the project to 100% completion. The work towards the more ambitious projects. The experience you learn from little project like this is priceless! If you start with too complex of a project, you set yourself up for frustration and possible failure. Also, learn to debug programs in the debugger and get comfortable there...trust me, you will spend A LOT of time there...
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#14 4 MAY 2011 at 6:04am
ghostryder Colonel Posts : 6934 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline	Should I switch gears or stick with what I have now assuming that the basics will still be there when (or IF) I move up to something else eventually? C# is far more popular than Javascript and there is far more resourses available. It is very much like C++ without all the under the hood hassles of memory/io etc management. It is a bit slower than C++- but know that the .net lanuages do a little trick that once started and run- they compile within and run at compiled speed in most cases. Most modern engines like Unity 3D use c#- however if you not interested in an engine c++ is a good choice. Braz is lucky he learned C in school- it was not available when I went-- giving away my age lol...but I remember spending a lot of time with the 6809 on the coco, etc. Great stuff....ancient today but the PC didn't come out until years later---and quite frankly wasn't too immpressive either.
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#15 4 MAY 2011 at 1:35pm
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	Thanks again for all the help! Sounds like c# is the way to go if it's easier and will get me to the productivity phase sooner. I'll have to track down a book for C# that's as simple as the C++ Beginners Guide. I'm a little leery of the Dummies/Idiots guides since the feedback out there seems to indicate that these books assume the dummy target audience already knows something about programing- which kind of defeats the whole purpose. Any suggestions? Also, if I do continue reading the C++ guide for a little bit while I track down a C# guide can I confuse myself too much or will it actually help? Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#16 4 MAY 2011 at 5:40pm
ghostryder Colonel Posts : 6934 Joined: 4 MAY 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Offline	Here's a good place to start with c# http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/76346-3D-Buzz-Tutorials and here is a good list : http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/4897/how-can-i-start-learning-unity-fast-list-of-tutorials I posted this tutorial a while back--a diablo hack&Slash---it's using c# as well and tutorials are excellent---and he does explain his code so a great way to learn both the language and the engine and the work flow. http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial
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#17 4 MAY 2011 at 6:09pm
Staggerwing Colonel Posts : 3317 Joined: 4 AUG 2007 Status : Offline	Thanks again GR! I'll check out those links. Thanks Braz24 and GJK as well. I've already started by D/Ling MS Visual C# express 2010 from the Visual Studio Express page and reading up on the intro here. Maybe I'll be able to get the console to print 'Hello World' by the weekend...[ ] Wit Ye further, or how...? -Voluspa (Poetic Eddas)
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#18 4 MAY 2011 at 6:42pm
khill9702 Centurion Posts : 999 Joined: 25 NOV 2009 Location: US, WA Status : Offline	I had computer programming in high school and they used Visual Basic which many of you have referenced. It is a really easy way to teach someone computer programming and I guess thats why our teacher used it. I was atleast able to create the simple programs we had to do throughout the year, like we had to build a program for a restaurant to keep track of seating, calculating peoples bills, etc. I just don't have the patience, interest, talent or logical brain I think needed to have turned it into something i could have studied in college. But I though VB was really straightforward for a beginner.
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#19 4 MAY 2011 at 7:20pm
Braz24 Centurion Posts : 737 Joined: 3 AUG 2006 Status : Offline	@Staggerwing...The dummiesbooks are actually pretty good...I own many of them and they make a great quick reference of whatever subject when you are already familiar with the subject. When you need to learn the subject, they're pretty good too. With regards to learning programming with the dummies books...They're not bad, but I like plenty of exercises to drive the point home and help me retain it for longer. The dummies books don't contain exercises unless there is a dummies workbook out for the subject you choose....
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#20 4 MAY 2011 at 8:02pm
GJK Centurion Posts : 744 Joined: 1 FEB 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	Unity3d looks like a tool mostly for 3d graphics; high-end FPS and RTS type games. Would it be over-kill to do a "Advanced Tactics" type of game with it? "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." -Dean Vernon Wormer
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#21 4 MAY 2011 at 8:41pm
GJK Centurion Posts : 744 Joined: 1 FEB 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	FWIW, an interesting set of tutorials for game making with MMF2: [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7BRpFipElo[/link] This would give the impression that it's really best for side-scrollers only, however the book that I referenced above on Wargame Design may make that point moot. I have the book on order so I'll review it later once I've had a chance to go through it. "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." -Dean Vernon Wormer
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#22 4 MAY 2011 at 10:33pm
yoshino Centurion Posts : 110 Joined: 22 APR 2008 Status : Online	*Originally Posted By GJK* Unity3d looks like a tool mostly for 3d graphics; high-end FPS and RTS type games. Would it be over-kill to do a "Advanced Tactics" type of game with it? Of course ,Unity's most advantage would be making 3D games quite easily, there are many 2D games made by Unity as well. I made a hex grid demo(2D and 3D) with Unity. Look at my web site. http://yoshinogames.sakura.ne.jp/en/unity.html Even for 2D games, Unity can easily make them rather than programming from scratch. Because I can easily recognize objects and the map on the scene view during programming. And when running a test, compile time is almost nothing. In C++, compile time would be cause a problem if program files are too large. As for your mentioned book, I have a copy too. A good book for sure. However, if you want to 'expand' the game system, you will need a decent programming knowledge and experience (even any tools require it).
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#23 5 MAY 2011 at 7:01am
GJK Centurion Posts : 744 Joined: 1 FEB 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	I'm anxious for my copy of the book to arrive. It's my understanding also that with MMF2, you can plug in .Net and C(++) libraries so it seems that it's expandable. Again, I don't know - I have barely begun to look into all of this. "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." -Dean Vernon Wormer
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#24 6 MAY 2011 at 6:22am
Strategy Centurion Posts : 315 Joined: 15 MAY 2003 Status : Online	A bit late with this recommendation, but unless I was planning to make this into a living or had extensive prior experience with C++, I'd stay far away from that language. I love the power of the language (I do most of professional coding in C++), but as a newbie language, C++ is terrible. I would suggest going with either Java or C#. Java has the advantage of having all its documentation basically available freely on the new, as well as being usable on pretty much any platform. A bonus, IMO, is that you can very easily transition to developing on Android, if you feel like trying your hand at doing an app. The main downside of Java for game development is that support for effective graphics is fairly poor (not a lot of really good Java game libraries around). This should not be a huge problem if you're just looking to do a strategy game, but it is a concern. C# is essentially an attempt to make C++ modern; a Microsoft implementation of Java, in many ways (the two languages borrow heavily from each other). It's big strength and weakness is that it ties into the .Net platform; this means that you get excellent graphics support and better tools than for Java. The downside is that you are heavily tied into Windows. /Strategy Designer/Developer, [link=http://www.micabyte.com/]MicaByte Systems[/link]
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#25 6 MAY 2011 at 7:02am
Saint Ruth Centurion Posts : 109 Joined: 3 APR 2008 Status : Offline	If you're a noob, for the love of God, don't go near C++!! You'll bang your head against a wall for a month and never code again. I wouldn't start with any OO language... Start with something as simple as possible to get the basics. A language like Pascal. Learn that and then move on to a more complicated language...I'd suggest Java as it's simplier and now has a lot of good 3D stuff (like jMonkeyEngine).
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Topic: Quickest and easiest programing language for noobs?

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