The Wargamer | Computer Gaming - Used Games Sales More Costly than Piracy says Fable 3 Developer

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Topic: Used Games Sales More Costly than Piracy says Fable 3 Developer

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All Forums : [GAMES] : Computer Gaming > Used Games Sales More Costly than Piracy says Fable 3 Developer

#1 27 JUN 2011 at 7:45pm
ParaBoxerX Banned for 13471 days Posts : 55 Joined: 11 JUN 2011 Status : Offline	Found this article. http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/05/18/2133207/Fable-III-Dev-Used-Game-Sales-More-Costly-Than-Piracy What do you think? [image]http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/S/SA/SAC/SacredGoddess/1128172719_intsaiolos.jpg[/image]
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#2 27 JUN 2011 at 8:12pm
Martok Colonel Posts : 4018 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	Whatever developer made that absurd claim needs to stop sniffing glue. What an idiot. "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#3 27 JUN 2011 at 9:44pm
Arctic Blast Commander Posts : 2503 Joined: 9 APR 2007 Location: CA, Alberta Status : Offline	It's Peter Molyneux. His constant claims that whatever project he's working on at a given time is THE GREATEST THING EVER SEEN BY ANYONE EVER, and promises of depth and features that never, ever remotely appear in the finished product, have pretty much destroyed any credibility he may once have had.
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#4 27 JUN 2011 at 9:45pm
Greybriar Commander Posts : 2703 Joined: 30 MAY 2008 Location: US Status : Offline	To clarify: "Fable III developer Lionhead has told Eurogamer that second-hand (pre-owned) sales on Xbox 360 are today a bigger problem than piracy on PC...." This war is not about slavery. --Robert E. Lee
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#5 27 JUN 2011 at 10:20pm
Martok Colonel Posts : 4018 Joined: 4 JUN 2005 Location: US, Minnesota Status : Offline	^ "Pot-ay-to, po-TAH-to". It's still a ridiculous statement, and Lionhead is still idiotic for saying it. (Yes, I did read the article.) Secondhand game sales have been around forever, and the impact on developers & publishers' bottom lines is negligible. Getting rid of secondhand sales will only reduce the amount money coming into stores; it will not measurably increase the amount of money going to the publishers/developers. "I happen to believe that both parties deserve a good scouring with a metal brush and sent to their room without reelection" - Steelgrave
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#6 29 JUN 2011 at 5:35am
Nefaro Colonel Posts : 4640 Joined: 6 OCT 2003 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Greybriar* To clarify: "Fable III developer Lionhead has told Eurogamer that second-hand (pre-owned) sales on Xbox 360 are today a bigger problem than piracy on PC...." He's absolutely correct, too. They don't make a thing off of the resale of games, much less the gimmes and loaners. And stores do it everywhere; it's not just some rare techie hiding in a dark basement somewhere. Do I think they should? No. But it's a big reason DRM is going the way of required registration.. so that once it's forced registry is done, it can't be used again in a resale. I've been predicting such future online activation requirements for console games, too, and it's for this reason the industry heavies will do it. __________________________ Are you brave enough for 640kb?
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#7 29 JUN 2011 at 7:56am
smaul Centurion Posts : 205 Joined: 31 JUL 2006 Status : Offline	yeah, I was going to open a video game store about 3 years ago, and Nefaro, you are correct. You make squat on a new game, and the only reason you would be able to keep your doors open is accessories, repair, and used games the latter being about 70% of your profits. Im not sure why you dont think someone should be able to do that though. If I buy something from someone I should have the right to resell it. Selling a game while keeping a full version to play to me is wrong, but not all of us do that, if I sell a game, its not on my PC or I dont have it saved on my console. love games? So do I, drop by my blog sometime. www.fungamesroom.com
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#8 11 JUL 2011 at 6:42am
Iain McNeil Centurion Posts : 427 Joined: 13 FEB 2004 Location: UK Status : Offline	I completely agree with Lionheads sentiments - used games are a disaster for the industry and forcing publishers to look for alternative roots to market that bypass retail completely. In the end retail will be the loser as it will cease to exist and this is not good for big publishers as they need the retail route to market. The shelf space dedicated to pre-owned games has seriously restricted the space for new games, meaning only the AAA titles get stocked, which people can pick up cheaper at a supermarket. Retail has lost the plot and is going to struggle to survive in any format we currently recognise. Specialist retailers should be trying to beat the supermarkets in the breadth of their range not price wars - which is why they can't get any margin on the games and they can never win that fight. Its a good thing PC games can't be resold. Iain McNeil Slitherine We've got History under our skin [link=http://www.slitherine.com/]http://www.slitherine.com/[/link]
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#9 12 JUL 2011 at 10:02am
Nefaro Colonel Posts : 4640 Joined: 6 OCT 2003 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By smaul* yeah, I was going to open a video game store about 3 years ago, and Nefaro, you are correct. You make squat on a new game, and the only reason you would be able to keep your doors open is accessories, repair, and used games the latter being about 70% of your profits. Im not sure why you dont think someone should be able to do that though. If I buy something from someone I should have the right to resell it. Selling a game while keeping a full version to play to me is wrong, but not all of us do that, if I sell a game, its not on my PC or I dont have it saved on my console. I'm sorry, I meant that applying DRM to stop resale by legitimate purchasers is something I'm against. I had stated that prior to actually spouting my DRM rant in that post. I believe someone who's purchased something should be able to resell it, just like anything else. Sorry for the improper grammatical structure. [sm=00000289.gif] I do believe that much of the new slew of DRM is aimed at restricting resales, which certainly hurts their bottom line, and piracy is just a skapegoat excuse to do so. __________________________ Are you brave enough for 640kb?
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#10 12 JUL 2011 at 10:48am
roman2440 Commander Posts : 1036 Joined: 12 MAR 2004 Location: 0 Status : Offline	Its funny, this issue and piracy are mostly related to the same source issue - Crappy Games. Fable 3 sucked - it may have had some degree of success in sales, but from what I've read it did far less than expected, and mostly because the game sucked. Naturally you have to go scapegoat something to explain why it didn't do as well, because it couldn't be that you screwed up the game design? So who do you blame, well you start with pirates. But hold on, how does piracy affect console sales? Piracy does exist there but it is significantly reduced as compared to PC sales. So you have to blame the next thing, used game sales. Where do used games sales come from? They come from players who no longer see value in them keeping the game. Why is that you might ask? There is a small portion that will do so because of financial difficulties, and some that would get rid of a good game just because they've played it too much. The vast majority of used game sales are simply that a game has been either completed and has little to no replay value, or the game was not appealing to the player. Either of the last two issues are really issues with a crappy game. The short story is that a good game doesn't have problems with piracy or used games sales. Have you tried to find the best games with good replay value in a used game shop? If you do happen to find one of those, they don't generally have much used stock if any at all, and it costs nearly as much as the game would new. If you are a developer that is looking into the issues of piracy and used game sales, it would do a lot of benefit to look internally at the quality of your game and the reality of the replay options available.
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#11 12 JUL 2011 at 11:07am
DoctorQuest Centurion Posts : 540 Joined: 14 NOV 2009 Status : Offline	Wait a minute..... Why is this any different than used books, used cars, used guns, used CDs and records, used furniture? Any industry is going to be affected by "used" sales. What makes PC and console gaming so special? I tend to agree with roman. I don't sell my GOOD games.
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#12 12 JUL 2011 at 11:14am
Joram Centurion Posts : 798 Joined: 3 DEC 2006 Location: US Status : Offline	You guys must not go into EB Games very much. The wall is lined with used console games. All of them regardless of quality. I've always felt this policy was like shooting themselves in the foot and is one of the reasons for the push to micro-transactions and DLC where you can't resell it.
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#13 12 JUL 2011 at 12:54pm
DoctorQuest Centurion Posts : 540 Joined: 14 NOV 2009 Status : Offline	That may speak to the lack of replay value in most console games. Most of my PC games are designed with replay value. I never get to the end of FS2004.
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#14 12 JUL 2011 at 9:38pm
Syt Commander Posts : 1037 Joined: 2 AUG 2008 Status : Offline	I have both a console and a PC - I have the PC for the strategy games (mostly) and the console for glitzy action and sports games (mostly). I admit that I buy new releass for the PC more often than for the console, because I know I will get more mileage out of them. I don't have any pre-owned console games, but I know I usually wait till a game that interests me drops into the bargain bin price range (with very few exceptions like Red Dead Redemption or the Mass Effect games), because I know I'll play [Insert Action Title Here] once, maybe twice and then shelf it. [b][color=darkred][i]One strikeout is a tragedy, a million strikeouts are a statistic.[/i][/color][/b] - "Stallin' Joe" Dshugashvili, Manager of the Moscow Red Stars 1922-53
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#15 15 JUL 2011 at 4:03am
KG_Jag Centurion Posts : 43 Joined: 3 MAY 2011 Status : Offline	[left]Changes in operating systems and technology give used games a minimal shelf life and helps keep prices real. About the only gaming houses who might be hurt are those who keep selling the same P-II game over and over in different clothes and those who try to get high prices for older games by limiting retail outlets for the product--and thus price competition.[/left]
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#16 19 JUL 2011 at 6:15am
BlondKnight Centurion Posts : 446 Joined: 3 JUL 2004 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By DoctorQuest* Wait a minute..... Why is this any different than used books, used cars, used guns, used CDs and records, used furniture? Any industry is going to be affected by "used" sales. What makes PC and console gaming so special? +1 and tired of developer BS. Make a decent game or go make games for cell phones but stop handing us excuses.
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#17 27 JUL 2011 at 8:02am
Boggit Colonel Posts : 3525 Joined: 18 JUL 2003 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By smaul* yeah, I was going to open a video game store about 3 years ago, and Nefaro, you are correct. You make squat on a new game, and the only reason you would be able to keep your doors open is accessories, repair, and used games the latter being about 70% of your profits. Im not sure why you dont think someone should be able to do that though. If I buy something from someone I should have the right to resell it. Selling a game while keeping a full version to play to me is wrong, but not all of us do that, if I sell a game, its not on my PC or I dont have it saved on my console. I more or less agree. What I will add is that if I subsequently buy a "Gold" or "GotY" edition to a game I already have, I can see no reason why I shouldn't sell or gift the redundant game, which I've paid for but is now useless to me. It offsets the cost to me of updating to the latest edition, for which the store, developer etc has reaped the reward for the two purchases. Obviously, if the new owner is excited by the second hand game, the chances are that they will wish to upgrade too. I don't see why the second hand market should be criticised, since everyone can win, especially if developers see that Gold and Platinum editions are opportunities for existing fans. Where developers do lose on the second hand market is where they don't evolve their product, or fail to create further products in a series that someone who has bought/been gifted and played a second hand game goes on to be a fan, with subsequent brand loyalty. Just criticising the second hand market as a developer disrespects the purchasers right to dispose of something they don't want, but HAVE PAID FOR already. In that case, a desire for restrictive practices motivated by pure greed on the part of the developer seems to be the reason for criticism. This is not just a software issue. We see the same thing from car manufacturers who wish to kill retail competition with the second hand market, but it doesn't stop the majority of people dealing in second hand cars. The manufacturers can do very well out of it in the spares market, hence my comment about Gold and Platinum editions in the software business. A good example of where this has worked is with Paradox, who manage to reinvent core games very well. I've given EU away years ago, but I still went on to buy (and keep EU2, EU3 and various add ons). I don't think Paradox really lost out by the gift, especially since the person I gave if to is now a hard core EU fan with all the latest add ons.
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