I must confess to being a serial lurker but have found two great games through this site.

My only worry is; am I the only one who plays them? I am not a great gamer so look for hints but not many are out there for either of the games in the title.

Do others have these games? I keep losing the storyline characters in the Falklands campaigns and could really use some hints.

In hope

Glad to seeyou posting...

I know a hand full of the guys are actively playing SB Falklands, myself included.  You may find one or two of the members playing Future Force, but its really a niche within a niche.

I havn't played the campaings in SB Falklands yet.  I tend to stay away from the campaigns and stick with the scenarios.  I really just enjoy the set piece battles and always found the campaign feature in the SB games somewhat light.

I've played both, I always struggle with SB's micromanagement, but I am currently obsessed with the Falklands campaign, so its icon on my desktop is never far away from my clicking finger. I haven't played it in campaign mode at all. What is interesting is that you say there are storyline characters involved. In the scenario's I couldnt find any names attached to the men at all.

Future Force is very niche, and abstract. I've played through a full game of it, took many, many screenshots of lots of lines of text in a tiny info box, and I made an initial AAR post about the game. But for the life of me, I haven't had the urge to play it again, and I'm struggling big time to find the inclination to finish the AAR off, simple because of the abstract nature of the game, not making interesting screenshots to wax lyrical over for an AAR. I spent a lot of time explaining Turn 1, and really the rest of the game could probably be summarised in a paragraph, with a Victory or Defeat graph at the end. I enjoyed the concept of the game, but nearing the end of the game had lost most of what excited me about it. I'll go back to it, for completeness, but I have an armful of other games to finish AAR's for, and Future Force isn't one my creative juices are flowing for at the moment.

That's a relief. Its not just me then!

I suspected as much with Future Force.

In SB I was enjoying the scenarios but worried I was missing something not playing the campaigns. Glad to know I'm probably not. I couldn't find the names - probably why they kept getting shot.

Is it worth getting Modern Battles next time I have the dosh? Or is it the same but sandy?

Originally Posted By spelk

but I am currently obsessed with the Falklands campaign, 

Me too. I am reading my way through 'The Battle for the Malvinas' having already revisited 'The Red and Green Life Machine' and 'Air War - Falklands' I may break out the 'Where there is Discord' boardgame if I can persuade the Boss that the dining table is an unnecessary luxury for the next few days.

I'm just finishing off "Sharkey" Ward's Harrier Over the Falklands book (featuring Invincibles 801 NAS). Have Hostile Skies by David Morgan next (to see the "other side" of the Harrier story Hermes' 800 NAS). Some of Sharkey's views seem quite abrasive, especially towards the Royal Air Force's waste on the Vulcan bombing, as well as outright disdain for the Flag on Hermes, and the way 800 NAS didn't have any faith in their radar. Whether it's just over confidence, and egotism on Sharkey's part, or whether there are grains of truth in there, I'm hoping to be able to find some balance with what Morgan says in his book.

Plus after my Spearhead Assault read, I was gagging to hear some more on the ground action, so I purchased Vince Bramley's Forward Into Hell to hear from the frontline of 3 Para's attack on Mount Longdon. Quite graphic photo plates in this book, showing mutiilated Argentinian soldiers, after shelling and assaults.

Blimey  I remember watching it all on the news when I was 10. Never a War that interested me to be honest. Which is odd as it was pretty much an Infantry battle which is normally what I'm interested in.I awalys thought it was a walkover for us and something of nothing (except for the Ships being sunk). Maybe if I had been a couple of years older at the time I would have understood the conflict abit more and it more than likely would have peeked my interest as I got older and into wargaming.

Originally Posted By spelk

I'm just finishing off "Sharkey" Ward's Harrier Over the Falklands book (featuring Invincibles 801 NAS). Have Hostile Skies by David Morgan next (to see the "other side" of the Harrier story Hermes' 800 NAS). Some of Sharkey's views seem quite abrasive, especially towards the Royal Air Force's waste on the Vulcan bombing, as well as outright disdain for the Flag on Hermes, and the way 800 NAS didn't have any faith in their radar. Whether it's just over confidence, and egotism on Sharkey's part, or whether there are grains of truth in there, I'm hoping to be able to find some balance with what Morgan says in his book.

 

Plus after my Spearhead Assault read, I was gagging to hear some more on the ground action, so I purchased Vince Bramley's Forward Into Hell to hear from the frontline of 3 Para's attack on Mount Longdon. Quite graphic photo plates in this book, showing mutiilated Argentinian soldiers, after shelling and assaults.

Thanks for the link - I will be buying shortly

I have just recorded Tumbledown on BBC4 tonight. I saw it years and years ago and liked it but I remember it got some stick from the forces.

Colin Firth as a youngster to get the lasses interested. Might be able to get it on catch up if your in the UK.

Sorry abit off subject but its rare to get a Falklands film on the telly. 

Dan H,

I agree with Jarhead. Play the scenarios until you are comfortable with the game engine then tackle the campaigns. I remember one title a ways back when I kept getting my character knocked off. I just gave up at that point & played the scenarios I liked then came back to the campaign. I did better having more experience. SB has a fairly steep learning curve & it is very easy to get into bad habits. I tend to fire it up then think I don't need to read the manual & just wing it. When I do I usually don't do very well. There are some good AAR's around that illustrate play & some good sites like theblitz.org where there are a lot of good players who can help. Iirc there is a boot camp for SB over at theblitz.org.

I would also say that SB: Falklands is not the easiest title to start on. You have to be very careful.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted By Wodin

Blimey  I remember watching it all on the news when I was 10. Never a War that interested me to be honest. Which is odd as it was pretty much an Infantry battle which is normally what I'm interested in.

I remember watching it all unfold on the news as a teenager myself. I did get incredibly interested in the aircraft in the conflict - especially the Harrier/Sea Harrier aspects. I think I fell in love with the Harrier then, photocopying pictures from Janes (from the library) to stick over my wall!

I didn't remember much about the infantry battles. It all seemed to be storming in and kicking the Argies out. 

Originally Posted By Wodin

I awalys thought it was a walkover for us and something of nothing (except for the Ships being sunk). Maybe if I had been a couple of years older at the time I would have understood the conflict abit more and it more than likely would have peeked my interest as I got older and into wargaming.

I think it was presented as a simple task, we'll sail out there, sort them out with our superior forces and save the islands in double quick time. 

Only after reading about the conflict somewhat, can you see just how "out on a limb" we were. It seems like a number of fortuitous circumstances led to our victory. And according to Sharkey Ward a number of our failings with weapon systems led to gaps opening up, and our ships been put at risk from the few exocets the Argentinians had. We only had very minimal air cover for our task force. 12 on Hermes and 8 on Invincible. It was a paltry number of aircraft to defend our assets out there.

If the Argentinians had managed to lengthen the runway on Port Stanley and set up their Air operations there, they'd have managed air superiority by sheer weight of numbers. The distance from their mainland to attack our task force was prohibitive. 

Having said that, with our three hunter killer nuclear subs in the area, they were going to have a hard time using their carrier to deliver the air payloads.

Its a very interesting war, because its the last of the old school types of confict. Technology wasn't allowed to blossom out there, and the boots on the ground had a hell of a job to do, with minimal support. Reading up on it, its like opening up a pandora's box that I thought I understood from my childhood, but it has so much more detail to give. It's vaguely current, because of the cuts to our Harrier's and our Carriers. We struggled then, if we had to do it all over again, we'd have no assets to perform another task force with air cover!

It has made me bitter about the decommissioning of the Harriers to be honest. Especially after reading "Mr Sea Harrier" Sharkey's book. He's a very strong proponent of why the Harrier is still a valuable aircraft even in todays climate. 

Originally Posted By SiTheSly

I have just recorded Tumbledown on BBC4 tonight. I saw it years and years ago and liked it but I remember it got some stick from the forces.

Colin Firth as a youngster to get the lasses interested. Might be able to get it on catch up if your in the UK.

Sorry abit off subject but its rare to get a Falklands film on the telly. 

I watched that the other week, quite graphic in places, for its time. It's quite a harrowing tale of a soldier with massive head injuries, and how he copes with it. 

I enjoyed the Falklands Play, depicting the decisions made by the government at the time also.

Thanks for the Falklands Play tip as I am interested in the diplomacy but have never heard of it. I was out of the country for a long time so missed certain things.

The good news is its on youtube now so I will watch it tonight - thanks 

I was finding Future Force quite frustrating as I didn't know the relative values of the different units for the various operations.  I decided to contact the game support team requesting them, and they recently sent them to me.  I asked if I could post the values here on this board for other players, but they asked me not to as they were in the process of doing an update.  That was a few weeks ago, and I've not seen an update yet, so I'd urge you to contact support yourself as I feel bound by their request not to distribute them.  

Knowing the values really upped my interest in the game.  I still play it as a filler game, mainly when travelling, but I find myself wanting to complete the games when I return home, rather than forgetting about them once I shut the laptop off for landing.  In fact, the more I play it, and taking into account the relative combat and support cost values, the more strategically intrguing I find it.  But I'd say if you're not a hardcore grog, it isn't for you, but for a grog it is an intruiging abstraction of military strategic decision making.  

Thankyou Dale H and Makris

I haven't enjoyed a tactical game so much since the original Tacops and want to get better at it. Would I be better to get Modern Battles (I think that's what its called) and work up?

I will contact the support team regarding Future Force because I do feel like I'm thrashing around in the dark a bit. I want to make informed decisions but its a bit too hit and hope at the moment.

Check out this post from James Sterret for some hints and tips regarding Future Force

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=553195&p=1#555204

Originally Posted By spelk

Check out this post from James Sterret for some hints and tips regarding Future Force

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=553195&p=1#555204

 

Now that I've seen the actual numbers for the different units, I find that some of the information in that post is a bit misleading, e.g. using heavy brigades for PMEs is a poor decision under most circumstances, but the post could lead you to believe otherwise.

Originally Posted By SiTheSly

Thanks for the Falklands Play tip as I am interested in the diplomacy but have never heard of it. I was out of the country for a long time so missed certain things.

 

The good news is its on youtube now so I will watch it tonight - thanks 

If you have never seen "An ungentlemanly Act" you should.  About the initial Argentine invasion. One of the finest bits of TV ever made.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ungentlemanly-Act-DVD-Ian-Richardson/dp/B0000A1M2J/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1317155388&sr=1-1

Yep. I was about to buy both of those today (An Ungentlemanly Act and The Falklands Play) as they are both very good docu-dramas...but I refrained for the time being. Bought the book mentioned by Spelk though.

Yeah I've been trying to source that DVD (Ungentlemanly Act), but most places want ridiculous amounts of money for it new. I'll keep an eye out for it though.

Before I forget, theres an episode of Ships that Changed the World on the Military History channel this weekend (Saturday I think) and its got a piece about the SS Canberra and its use in the Falklands War.

http://www.radiotimes.com/programme/cmcym/ships-that-changed-the-world

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/ctp8q/ships-that-changed-the-world-from-the-sea-to-the-air

Originally Posted By Makris1821

Now that I've seen the actual numbers for the different units, I find that some of the information in that post is a bit misleading, e.g. using heavy brigades for PMEs is a poor decision under most circumstances, but the post could lead you to believe otherwise.

I think James pointed out that his information could be a little off, since he was quoting mechanics from a pre-release beta version. 

Would be nice to cobble together some sort of crib/cheat sheet for Future Force players - so that they can fully appreciate the mechanics, and the subtleties involved in the game. It's quite a dry game but can be very moorish in small doses. At one point, I was totally sold on it. But having left it for a while, I can't quite get the enthusiasm to give it another shot. Perhaps this thread will ignite that spark, and I'll be loading it up again - especially if theres a new patch due out.

Maybe we need a specific Falklands thread somewhere to collect all this info, but I've just stumbled upon some nice info on the Harrier - here a piece by David Morgan 899 NAS on Hermes over the Falklands..

The Sea Harrier's Baptism by Fire... (a few nice photos)

http://www.globalaviationresource.com/reports/2010/davidmorganp1.php

More info and pictures...

http://on-target-aviation.com/falklands25.html

A Poem wriiten about the Falklands War in 1982,

No heroes 

There were no heroes here 

Amongst the men who tramped through 

Rutted, quaking moor, 

Or crawled, cat-silent, 

Over skittering scree 

To prove the way. 

No heroes fought the blazing fires 

Which sucked the very blood from 

Ship and man alike. 

Or braved knife cold 

Without a thought 

To save a life. 

No heroes they, but ones who loved 

Sweet life and children's laugh, 

And dreamt of home 

When war allowed. 

They were but men. 

David Morgan Falklands War

Originally Posted By spelk

I'm just finishing off "Sharkey" Ward's Harrier Over the Falklands book (featuring Invincibles 801 NAS). Have Hostile Skies by David Morgan next (to see the "other side" of the Harrier story Hermes' 800 NAS). Some of Sharkey's views seem quite abrasive, especially towards the Royal Air Force's waste on the Vulcan bombing, as well as outright disdain for the Flag on Hermes, and the way 800 NAS didn't have any faith in their radar. Whether it's just over confidence, and egotism on Sharkey's part, or whether there are grains of truth in there, I'm hoping to be able to find some balance with what Morgan says in his book.

 

Plus after my Spearhead Assault read, I was gagging to hear some more on the ground action, so I purchased Vince Bramley's Forward Into Hell to hear from the frontline of 3 Para's attack on Mount Longdon. Quite graphic photo plates in this book, showing mutiilated Argentinian soldiers, after shelling and assaults.

Adm. Woodward's One Hundred Days is a nice book. Covers mostly the naval stuff, but a good account from the commander of the task force.