Sorry if i disturb you but well, if we start to comparing games these thigs appear, i follow a lot of years SES naval games but never buy them thanks to 1st DRM, 2nd 2D Interface and 3rd price but i had problems even with SES demos.

And comparing the comunity feedback is... i remember read gamesquad forums where was a great comunity but that is dead for lack of attention.

My opinions are totally personal and i think that i dont say something false.

Originally Posted By destraex (15 APR 2012 4:40am)

hexagon are you a tester or do you work for SAI?

Is it difficult for you to believe SAI is a good game?

I might not say it the same way as Hexagon, but SAI is the best wargame I have played on the PC.  

Originally Posted By Nefaro (15 APR 2012 2:49pm)

Originally Posted By destraex (15 APR 2012 4:40am)

hexagon are you a tester or do you work for SAI?

 

 

Is it difficult for you to believe SAI is a good game?

 

No its not difficult. Just the level of hate and perhaps the language barrier made me think, wow  is this guy for real.

But it seems he is for real the very definition of a anti-fanboi.

SES does that.  It used to be you loved it or hated it.  Their operations over the last couple years has seemed to put more people on the hate side.  If you read their forums, some of the lovers have become haters, or at least don't care any morer's.

Interesting discusssion & as a result I bought SAI. I was looking at NWAC then came this discussion about Jutland. The wargamer is the place to come for the straight scoop about games. I would have passed SAI by if it weren't for the endorsements here. I was underwhelmed & put off by the interface when I first looked at it but I have come to like & appreciate the graphics & it plays real solid so far. It promises to give me some great gaming to come. Couldn't be happier

Originally Posted By Hexagon (15 APR 2012 5:01am)

No, only a happy buyer of a game that has a nice future unlike other killed by terrible bad decisions and lack of respect for customers.

 

I want know if today somebody recomend buy SES naval games with DRM system and comunication and feedback with customers.

 

Before SAI we cant compare with modern naval games (and i feel the old Fighting Steel even better than SES games) but now i can compare and well, if even SES supporters are bored...

 

PD: after see the dead... well, suicide is a better word, SES forums in Gamesquad... what i can say.

Couldn't agree more I purchased SAI also and the game rocks and uses a simple serial number check like it should be.  NWS trusts their customers and treats them with respect.  This is why I continue to purchase games from the likes of NWS and Matrix Games.  Kudos to them and I did buy the first game from SES and never again with the DRM and poor customer service they can keep it.

Originally Posted By sabre31 (15 APR 2012 4:47pm)

 

Couldn't agree more I purchased SAI also and the game rocks and uses a simple serial number check like it should be.  NWS trusts their customers and treats them with respect.  

In addition the developer Fredrick has been extraordinarily open to feedback and suggestions.

Originally Posted By sabre31 (15 APR 2012 4:47pm)

Originally Posted By Hexagon (15 APR 2012 5:01am)

No, only a happy buyer of a game that has a nice future unlike other killed by terrible bad decisions and lack of respect for customers.

 

I want know if today somebody recomend buy SES naval games with DRM system and comunication and feedback with customers.

 

Before SAI we cant compare with modern naval games (and i feel the old Fighting Steel even better than SES games) but now i can compare and well, if even SES supporters are bored...

 

PD: after see the dead... well, suicide is a better word, SES forums in Gamesquad... what i can say.

 

 

Couldn't agree more I purchased SAI also and the game rocks and uses a simple serial number check like it should be.  NWS trusts their customers and treats them with respect.  This is why I continue to purchase games from the likes of NWS and Matrix Games.  Kudos to them and I did buy the first game from SES and never again with the DRM and poor customer service they can keep it.

Same here. I turned my back on SES as Iam under the impression that in their eyes every customer is a potenial Softwarepirate.

I own Distant Guns and Jutland but I passes on all the addons and havent touched both games for months now. I mean what can you expect from a company where one of the Forum Admins calls himself "Banhammer". Thats ridiculous.  Iam happy with HPS, NWS and Matrix. They trust me and Iam a happy and honest customer.

Originally Posted By sabre31 (15 APR 2012 4:47pm)

Originally Posted By Hexagon (15 APR 2012 5:01am)

No, only a happy buyer of a game that has a nice future unlike other killed by terrible bad decisions and lack of respect for customers.

 

I want know if today somebody recomend buy SES naval games with DRM system and comunication and feedback with customers.

 

Before SAI we cant compare with modern naval games (and i feel the old Fighting Steel even better than SES games) but now i can compare and well, if even SES supporters are bored...

 

PD: after see the dead... well, suicide is a better word, SES forums in Gamesquad... what i can say.

 

 

Couldn't agree more I purchased SAI also and the game rocks and uses a simple serial number check like it should be.  NWS trusts their customers and treats them with respect.  This is why I continue to purchase games from the likes of NWS and Matrix Games.  Kudos to them and I did buy the first game from SES and never again with the DRM and poor customer service they can keep it.

I might have kept at it with SES Jutland, but the game is strangely dull given its subject matter and the DRM doesn't tell you what the problem is when you try to fire it up on those rare occasions when you have forgotten how dull the game is .

So you sit there loading up whatever the changes are and then nothing happens and unless you email SES your chances of figuring out why nothing is happening are zero.  I wouldn't mind if the thing just said "You've moved your computer to a new

IP, so you might be doing something illegal, please validate with XYZ"  But no.  I can't even remember how I got the thing to work, but I don't mind a complex process if there is some indication of what I should do next.  I haven't tried since they did their new thing to the thing, but even a passing effort at imagining the weary tedium of getting the thing to make the thing that makes the thing work work is just too much.

Originally Posted By Dale H (15 APR 2012 4:31pm)

Interesting discusssion & as a result I bought SAI. I was looking at NWAC then came this discussion about Jutland. The wargamer is the place to come for the straight scoop about games. I would have passed SAI by if it weren't for the endorsements here. I was underwhelmed & put off by the interface when I first looked at it but I have come to like & appreciate the graphics & it plays real solid so far. It promises to give me some great gaming to come. Couldn't be happier

Yes!  I rely on the honesty and broad experince of the crowd here.  They haven't steered me wrong yet and I've bought some great games I would not otherwise have considered (eg.  Revolution under Seige, the HPS 1914 with mods and S&I).

I have said that all along; I don't mind DRM for a good game, but poorly implemented and buggy DRM is like stealing from your customers.

SES has created an almost impossible task of competing with another gaming house that cares about its customers, has a decent naval warfare game and does nof infect such game or games with toxic and troublesome DRM.

In fact instead of fixing their weaknesses, they double down on a toxic and troublesome DRM overcoat for all the games they sell.  Then expect to compete with the likes of Steam.  What the heck are they smoking to reach such delusional and hubristic heights?!

Originally Posted By KG_Jag (16 APR 2012 12:53pm)

SES has created an almost impossible task of competing with another gaming house that cares about its customers, has a decent naval warfare game and does nof infect such game or games with toxic and troublesome DRM.

 

In fact instead of fixing their weaknesses, they double down on a toxic and troublesome DRM overcoat for all the games they sell.  Then expect to compete with the likes of Steam.  What the heck are they smoking to reach such delusional and hubristic heights?!

The problem is SES are a vanity, bordering on narcissism, studio.

They're not trying to make money, or serve customers.

Instead they're about making customers do things their way.

I did notice that SES seems to out in force on their forums.  I even saw that Norm was responding to emails.  There must be outright panic there for Norm to be actually interacting with customers.

I did notice updates came through for Stormporwed and Jutland.  No changelog to see what was fixed.

I also noticed that SES made a comment that basically all anti-virus systems target and remove stormpowered exe files.  They are blaming the AV programs.  While some of them can be overly sensitive, when all AV programs target you, you must be doing something wrong.

Has anyone noticed its only the games with heavy DRM that have these issues with AV programs?

Any active program especially a small vendors unknown will have AV and firewall issues.

I guess steampowered's problem may be that its just so much smaller than impulse or steam.

I need to play Jutland actually. This thread is making me feel like I will be playing a little known jewel that

few will experience. 

It is a real shame about the DRM and customer service. Maybe I should volunteer myself to be their customer service

person.. their front man. I would have my work cut out I tell you.

My recommendation would be try SAI first...  I just finished a short battle in the med between Austria and Italy.  It came out bascially a draw, but the post-battle analysis is crazy neat.

You see where the fleets and ships were positioned at end, status of all ships, a log of all events, and a track feature that lets you see the track of all fleets and ships, including enemy.  It is amazing how some of the tracks look just like the tracks from naval history books and articles on real battles.

That is something Jutland does not have.  Jutland is fun to play small fleet engagements, but can be quite difficult to manage large jutland-like engagements.  In fact, I usually have SAI and Jutland running at the same time and use Jutland as a visual reference for my SAI games.  Just so I can see what the ships I am using in SAI look like.

SAI also has much better FOW.  I get false periscope sightings, false minefield and torpedo warnings, friendly ships missing orders, mis-IDing enemy ships, etc.  Jutland does not even come close.

Originally Posted By thewood (18 APR 2012 6:01am)

x In fact, I usually have SAI and Jutland running at the same time and use Jutland as a visual reference for my SAI games.  Just so I can see what the ships I am using in SAI look like.

 

I think SES is missing an opportunity to sell viewer apps with all the models, spent all that time creating the models might as well get double use out of them.  I'd buy it if it didn't have DRM.  I remember enjoying the viewer for "Birds of Prey" which was going to be based on openplane.  The audience would be larger than just wargamers for something like that.

Considering how much research SES obviously did on obsure ship classes from 1904 to 1918, I would bet that they could most likely make more money on publishing a detailed book on warships of the period.  Not sure what kind of DRM they would use on the book though.

Originally Posted By thewood (19 APR 2012 5:51am)

Considering how much research SES obviously did on obsure ship classes from 1904 to 1918, I would bet that they could most likely make more money on publishing a detailed book on warships of the period.  Not sure what kind of DRM they would use on the book though.

Ain't it obvious ?

They print everything in red on a dark green background - that way nobody can copy it.

That it also makes it plainly impossible for their paying customers to read the thing is not a consideration they'll ever make.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

I did notice SES seems to be really trying to salvage its support. They have posted more in the last fews days than in all the last year.  They seem a little defensive, but par for the course.

I don't know if its the complaining at sites like this, complaining at thier own forum, or the discussion of SAI around the web that kickstarted them.  Or it might pitiful sales of their new mappack...

Originally Posted By thewood (20 APR 2012 4:41am)

I did notice SES seems to be really trying to salvage its support. They have posted more in the last fews days than in all the last year.  They seem a little defensive, but par for the course.

 

I don't know if its the complaining at sites like this, complaining at thier own forum, or the discussion of SAI around the web that kickstarted them.  Or it might pitiful sales of their new mappack...

Probably all of the above.  When their new map pack reportedly had severe problems in even starting certain scenarios, and nobody had heard from them in a long time, you know they're taking a hammering on the public front.

Originally Posted By Nefaro (20 APR 2012 7:15am)

Originally Posted By thewood (20 APR 2012 4:41am)

I did notice SES seems to be really trying to salvage its support. They have posted more in the last fews days than in all the last year.  They seem a little defensive, but par for the course.

 

I don't know if its the complaining at sites like this, complaining at thier own forum, or the discussion of SAI around the web that kickstarted them.  Or it might pitiful sales of their new mappack...

 

Probably all of the above.  When their new map pack reportedly had severe problems in even starting certain scenarios, and nobody had heard from them in a long time, you know they're taking a hammering on the public front.

 

 

Well, I know they are certainly taking a "hammering" from a handful of posters on this forum (which, of course, is a forum associated with a SES competitor), all of whom claim they will not, or will no longer, patronize SES and thus have no recent experience with SES customer support (or the lack thereof).  And while these posters should therefore have no opinion as to SES's current customer support (or lack thereof),  they apparently have nothing better to do than repeatedly bash games which they do not own and have no intention of owning.

You know, I buy a lot of wargames (computer and board)  but still my purchases account for only a small percentage of the new games released every year.  It has never dawned on me to go to a wargaming forum and repeatedly post remarks about games (and, in particular, the customer support for such games) which I do not own and do not intend to buy.   

I want know if we say something false about SES games... SES games have the best and less invasive DRM??? his support is brilliant because they dont release game where you cant play the scens for bugs??? they use the comunity feed back to improve the game???

Here we only compare to similar products where sorry mate but SES´s ones loose in all and this is not customers fault or is our fault the terrible bad decisions that they take???

If SES dont like bad press maybe they need work more on their games and ear customers, i know many people who dont buy SES games thanks to DRM and the terrible bad experiences with the game bugs that they read from other buyers... this is internet time, no more "hide under the carpet" problems.