Sorry to start another Skyrim thread, but I have stuck my questions in on existing threads a couple of times without replies.

Oblivion obviously had a lot of depth, and for that reason I gave it a really good chance, but ultimately it lost me.  The reviews touted Skyrim as Improved Oblivion, and that didn't really attract me.  But looking at the Metacritic reviews for Skyrim, they're riggin' awesome, and I keep hearing mentions of Skyrim filtering into the extraneous (non-gaming) world.

Is there anything for me?  Here were my problems with Oblivion:

• Just a few monster types, and you kept seeing the same thing over and over, just different level now.  (And I hated those flying worms that were everywhere.)
• Combat is scaled everywhere, so there's no real advantage to levelling up.
• Big incentives to stand in place and jump, or to swim in circles.  Over and over and over.
• Maybe the one that bothered me the most is that you are expected to steal everything that isn't nailed down or else you won't be doing as well as you would if you did, especially since you can just save and reload before trying, e.g., a difficult pick-pocket.  (Yes, this is a play style thing, but maximizing my character is my play style, I don't have another one, thank you.)
• Combat is twitchy and difficult.

Does all this stuff carry over?

Originally Posted By glen55

Sorry to start another Skyrim thread, but I have stuck my questions in on existing threads a couple of times without replies.

 

Oblivion obviously had a lot of depth, and for that reason I gave it a really good chance, but ultimately it lost me.  The reviews touted Skyrim as Improved Oblivion, and that didn't really attract me.  But looking at the Metacritic reviews for Skyrim, they're riggin' awesome, and I keep hearing mentions of Skyrim filtering into the extraneous (non-gaming) world.

 

Is there anything for me?  Here were my problems with Oblivion:

 

• Just a few monster types, and you kept seeing the same thing over and over, just different level now.  (And I hated those flying worms that were everywhere.)

Dunno if there is more or less than in Oblivion there is enough variation for me atleast. But i wouldn't mind some more from a DLC.

• Combat is scaled everywhere, so there's no real advantage to levelling up.

There is limited scaling. The different mobs have a lvl range they will stay within. Which means that you can run into too powerfull mobs for you to handle in the beginning but you increase in power compared to mobs as you lvl.

• Big incentives to stand in place and jump, or to swim in circles.  Over and over and over.

None of that, unless you're trying to waste time.

• Maybe the one that bothered me the most is that you are expected to steal everything that isn't nailed down or else you won't be doing as well as you would if you did, especially since you can just save and reload before trying, e.g., a difficult pick-pocket.  (Yes, this is a play style thing, but maximizing my character is my play style, I don't have another one, thank you.)

As always this is something you can do. But imo you really don't gain that much by doing it. My thief character didn't even bother with breaking into houses while people slept after the first town. The largest gain would be if you want to put a few points into pickpocketing and steal back money from people that train you, assuming you even use trainers.

• Combat is twitchy and difficult.

Sameish i guess. Not sure but could be easier than Oblivion. Anyway, this is why there is different difficulty levels. It does take a while to learn some tricks and many attacks can be evaded by pretending to go close and then backing up.

 

 

Does all this stuff carry over?

I hope others can pitch in and answer aswell.

Originally Posted By glen55

Sorry to start another Skyrim thread, but I have stuck my questions in on existing threads a couple of times without replies.

 

Oblivion obviously had a lot of depth, and for that reason I gave it a really good chance, but ultimately it lost me.  The reviews touted Skyrim as Improved Oblivion, and that didn't really attract me.  But looking at the Metacritic reviews for Skyrim, they're riggin' awesome, and I keep hearing mentions of Skyrim filtering into the extraneous (non-gaming) world.

 

Is there anything for me?  Here were my problems with Oblivion:

 

• Just a few monster types, and you kept seeing the same thing over and over, just different level now.  (And I hated those flying worms that were everywhere.)
• Combat is scaled everywhere, so there's no real advantage to levelling up.
• Big incentives to stand in place and jump, or to swim in circles.  Over and over and over.
• Maybe the one that bothered me the most is that you are expected to steal everything that isn't nailed down or else you won't be doing as well as you would if you did, especially since you can just save and reload before trying, e.g., a difficult pick-pocket.  (Yes, this is a play style thing, but maximizing my character is my play style, I don't have another one, thank you.)
• Combat is twitchy and difficult.

 

Does all this stuff carry over?

Monster types could still use some variety. The flying worms (equally despised by this poster) are no longer. (They didn't make it out of Morrowind to my knowledge.) I personally don't find the variety of creatures a major drawback in Skyrim -- yet -- but there certainly isn't enough new variety over Oblivion for someone who is concerned about variety to say, "Yep, there's so much variety here I can't comment on it.

Combat is not scaled everywhere. However, the real advantages to leveling up in the game are now the perk points you get to spend on necessary abilities. This is a plethora of riches -- there isn't a skill tree that you AREN'T going to want to fill up. And if you aren't putting points into arms and armor, you are going to find yourself next to useless pretty quick.

I cannot speak to the size of the incentives to do non fun activities in games, including standing in place and jumping, primarily because I am aware of no incentive that could persuade me to spend time on a computer jumping my avatar in place. Skyrim remains a "you gain levels by successfully using skills" game, and so this does mean wierd things like gaining sneak by just not being seen (fortunately somebody has to actually be looking at you). I believe they have cleaned up some of the exploits of the old "jump in place" model.

I do not believe you need to steal everything in sight. You are better off spending some time looting bodies in dungeons, but I haven't stolen anything yet in any of these games. However, I have no idea if my character's needs are anything close to what you want your character to be maximized as, so hard to say how "needful" stealing things are. Quite frankly, stealing everything in sight scares me -- I have enough loot problems with the stuff lying around to even consider taking additional stuff. 

Combat is pretty similar to Oblivion, as I recall it. They've finally succumbed to having a health bar for your enemy, so at the very least you have some idea if you are accomplishing anything.

The advantages to Skyrim over Oblivion are hard to pinpoint. But in Skyrim they have managed to capture something oodles more atmospheric than Oblivion.

Originally Posted By glen55

Sorry to start another Skyrim thread, but I have stuck my questions in on existing threads a couple of times without replies.

 

Oblivion obviously had a lot of depth, and for that reason I gave it a really good chance, but ultimately it lost me.  The reviews touted Skyrim as Improved Oblivion, and that didn't really attract me.  But looking at the Metacritic reviews for Skyrim, they're riggin' awesome, and I keep hearing mentions of Skyrim filtering into the extraneous (non-gaming) world.

 

Is there anything for me?  Here were my problems with Oblivion:

 

• Just a few monster types, and you kept seeing the same thing over and over, just different level now.  (And I hated those flying worms that were everywhere.)
• Combat is scaled everywhere, so there's no real advantage to levelling up.
• Big incentives to stand in place and jump, or to swim in circles.  Over and over and over.
• Maybe the one that bothered me the most is that you are expected to steal everything that isn't nailed down or else you won't be doing as well as you would if you did, especially since you can just save and reload before trying, e.g., a difficult pick-pocket.  (Yes, this is a play style thing, but maximizing my character is my play style, I don't have another one, thank you.)
• Combat is twitchy and difficult.

 

Does all this stuff carry over?

Monster types could still use some variety. The flying worms (equally despised by this poster) are no longer. (They didn't make it out of Morrowind to my knowledge.) I personally don't find the variety of creatures a major drawback in Skyrim -- yet -- but there certainly isn't enough new variety over Oblivion for someone who is concerned about variety to say, "Yep, there's so much variety here I can't comment on it.

Combat is not scaled everywhere. However, the real advantages to leveling up in the game are now the perk points you get to spend on necessary abilities. This is a plethora of riches -- there isn't a skill tree that you AREN'T going to want to fill up. And if you aren't putting points into arms and armor, you are going to find yourself next to useless pretty quick.

I cannot speak to the size of the incentives to do non fun activities in games, including standing in place and jumping, primarily because I am aware of no incentive that could persuade me to spend time on a computer jumping my avatar in place. Skyrim remains a "you gain levels by successfully using skills" game, and so this does mean wierd things like gaining sneak by just not being seen (fortunately somebody has to actually be looking at you). I believe they have cleaned up some of the exploits of the old "jump in place" model.

I do not believe you need to steal everything in sight. You are better off spending some time looting bodies in dungeons, but I haven't stolen anything yet in any of these games. However, I have no idea if my character's needs are anything close to what you want your character to be maximized as, so hard to say how "needful" stealing things are. Quite frankly, stealing everything in sight scares me -- I have enough loot problems with the stuff lying around to even consider taking additional stuff. 

Combat is pretty similar to Oblivion, as I recall it. They've finally succumbed to having a health bar for your enemy, so at the very least you have some idea if you are accomplishing anything.

The advantages to Skyrim over Oblivion are hard to pinpoint. But in Skyrim they have managed to capture something oodles more atmospheric than Oblivion.

^I agree with the above point on atmosphere. Oblivion captured my imagination for about a month. Skyrim just has that certain something that has really dug into me, however, much moreso than the previous game. I didn't know what to expect and have been very happily surprised. I find the combat to be more fun than Oblivion too as well as the quests. Other aspects of the game seem to be tighter and better assembled too...even traveling from town to town is interesting and fun, where it was more bland in Oblivion.

• Just a few monster types, and you kept seeing the same thing over and over, just different level now.  (And I hated those flying worms that were everywhere.)

Combat variety in terms of different opponents hasn't changed much--but the combat itself has---so though there aren't a huge variety of different enemies--the set stands up better than Oblivion as a whole because the engine behind the combat (leveling/stats/abilities) works so much better than Oblivion. For example--there's a clear difference between light and heavy armor---and it's not just in weight. If you plan to go toe to toe you do it in heavy armor---as even low level heavy armor types are better than the higher light armor types. So for once--and it makes sense-light armor is for stealthy quick moving combat and heavy is for in your face combat. Couple this with the newer arcane enchantment system and perks- along with additions of Mamoths/giants the overall experience is much better.

• Combat is scaled everywhere, so there's no real advantage to levelling up.

Skyrim uses the same map tethering system as Fallout. Generally it is different than Oblivion in this way. You enter an area the level range is set---but it can be either equal or 5 levels lower or higher than you--or any level in this range. the map designer looks at the enimies and decides. This gives the impression most enemies do not level with you as there is planty of times the enemies will be higher anf tough. But the level is set so you can leave and return in 5 levels and handle them. But the limit is 5 levels. There's no MMO type situations where a level 20 is running through level 60 mobs. Generally also even if the areas mobs are equal the Boss monster is almost always set 5 levels higher. It is a much better system than Oblivion.

• Big incentives to stand in place and jump, or to swim in circles.  Over and over and over.

Pretty much eliminated as speed and other stats have been elimated or merged in other stats that require posative results to go up. In other words jumping in one spot does absolutely nothing and shoting arrows at cans the same. You MUST score a hit on an enemy to get an increase-you must get a solid spell hit-etc. It's still skill based rther than experience based so there are exploits (for example you can tell a companion to "stay" then sneak attack with arrows forever and they won't respond)-but generally most holes have been plugged

• Maybe the one that bothered me the most is that you are expected to steal everything that isn't nailed down or else you won't be doing as well as you would if you did, especially since you can just save and reload before trying, e.g., a difficult pick-pocket.  (Yes, this is a play style thing, but maximizing my character is my play style, I don't have another one, thank you.)

The stealth/thieving system in Oblivion was horribly broke. Don't you remember guards spotting you through walls miles away? You HAD to mod the game to enjoy this angle. Pretty much it's been addressed in Skyrim. It is sight-based---and the sneak skill works and has perks and armor enchantments to boost the skill. It's still exploitable---put a bucket on their head to blind them and steal away---but at least the guards are not telepathic. I use sneak but rarely steal but I believe your like this better.

• Combat is twitchy and difficult.

It's not a lot different except to include an actual setup where a stealthy guy with a bow----especially one that has a poison potion and an enchanted bow-can avoid combat for the most part. A magic user would have a much harder time as the magic does not scale properly. This means your armor enhancements are spent making up for that instead of resists and armor rating increases-which in the end means your either die by a one shot wizard or your offesive spells won't touch enemies at higher levels. There are mods trying to address this but until the CS is released I'd avoid playing a Mage type character.

Overall Skyrim is a much different game than Oblivion. Map design for one is far superior. Oblivion was copy/paste speedtree boredom and you stumbled across ancient ruins and caves and dungeons every 15 feet. Skyrims outdoor areas seem just that-vaste outdoor areas-and you do not stumble on dungeons every second. There's real space seperating them-the scale is nearly the best I've seen. There's still copy/paste going on-but not in the outdoor areas--mostly inns, and dungeons are generally smaller-but better designed-but I rarely get lost in them.

Other differences---perks is exactly what this skill based system needed. It needs some balancing but it is a huge improvement. In Morrowind/Oblivion by level 20 no matter how you started you were master of everything----here the perks themselves give you mastery-and you only get a perk a level--your not have enough to master everything. Therefore you have replay value as the paths of a Mage/Thief/Fighter/Assassin is very different---

Skyrim also has tons of atmosphere-tons better acting--and the quests are set up far differently. Side quest dominate this game. You can stumble through them for hours without ever touching the main quest.

One thing I've noticed about Skyrim is that I actually a) listen to the dialogue and b) care what the NPC's say and what the back story is.  I don't know why exactly, it might be the more lifelike animations and such, and maybe the story in Skyrim is more interesting than Morrowind/Oblivion.  I find that I really am caring about where this whole main story is going. 

Remember, I'm the guy that hates a lot of talking in my RPG's, but in Skyrim it's ok for some reason.

Ghost,

How come you don't get a job working on one of these games?  It seems that you have a lot of insights and with your programming background I'd think you'd be a good fit for an RPG development team.

Been there, done that. Not fun. not profitable--working for a dev is a lot like working for a drug dealer--long hours and your lucky if you get paid at all-even if that pay is less than freddy at McDonalds. Besides-I'm working on a project now-have been for a while, Kind of at a null right now but it'll pick back up as the day job goes into slow period and I have bigger blocks of off time.

Thanks to everybody for such specific responses.  I got more of the info I wanted about Skyrim from this thread than I did from those other massive threads plus the 7 or 8 reviews I've read.

I'm way hooked into SWTOR right now, and then ME3 is at the end of March, so I'm not sure when exactly I'll work it in.  But I will.

Originally Posted By glen55

Thanks to everybody for such specific responses.  I got more of the info I wanted about Skyrim from this thread than I did from those other massive threads plus the 7 or 8 reviews I've read.

 

I'm way hooked into SWTOR right now, and then ME3 is at the end of March, so I'm not sure when exactly I'll work it in.  But I will.

Sounds like you got your hands full. But now you know you want to try it atleast, so just keep your eyes peeled for a sale.

Originally Posted By Fetrik

Originally Posted By glen55

Thanks to everybody for such specific responses.  I got more of the info I wanted about Skyrim from this thread than I did from those other massive threads plus the 7 or 8 reviews I've read.

 

I'm way hooked into SWTOR right now, and then ME3 is at the end of March, so I'm not sure when exactly I'll work it in.  But I will.

 

Sounds like you got your hands full. But now you know you want to try it atleast, so just keep your eyes peeled for a sale.

It'll come, don't worry. It was 35% off already a few weeks ago. And if you're really patient you can wait for a GOTY edition in some time.

Originally Posted By Yskonyn

It'll come, don't worry. It was 35% off already a few weeks ago. And if you're really patient you can wait for a GOTY edition in some time.