http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16524419

"Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned a video that appears to show US Marines urinating on the bloodied corpses of several Taliban fighters."

If the cia was looking for military leaks guess they wont have far to go.  =)

...i'm outrages

 Marine p*ss is to good to be wasted on 'ritual washings' to prepare for  ha lol halal Taliban-funeral services   

( http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/funeral.htm  The Prophet (s.a.w) said: "Hasten the funeral rites." Preparing the body for burial is a Fard Kifaayah - A communal obligation on Muslims. Washing the dead body prior to shrouding and burial is obligatory, according to numerous recorded instructions given by the Prophet (s.a.w). Preparing the deceased begins with the washing of the body. As a general rule, males should take the responsibility of washing males, and females should wash females....)

 even so the 72virgins will love the odor ... first time they smell some Testosterone deviated pheromones when The Prophet (s.a.w) abuse them 'to serve a martyr'  

Makes one wonder which side is Karzai on. These dead talibs deserve to have their bodies mangled and mixed with pigs excrement. This "investigation" is an illustration of what is wrong with fighting taliban. This would be funny if it weren't so serious. How much time and money is going to be spent on this nonsense?

Originally Posted By pawelj

Makes one wonder which side is Karzai on.

There is not now, nor has there ever been any question as to whose side Karzai is on.  Here is a news flash...it ain't ours.  He is on his own side and in order for him to remain the accepted leader of a nation filled with radical Islamic animals, he has to publicly appeal to their sensibilities.  By condemning this "action," he is doing exactly that...

On the other hand, while personally, this sort of thing doesn't make me shed tears, our Marines are trained to be smarter than this. Regardless of whether we like it or not, this sort of nonsense has repercussions on the battlefield.  If they are going to waste their time doing this crap, they need to absolutely avoid getting caught doing it on video.  As Okult13 has so adroitly noted, it will "leak."

Originally Posted By Jarhead0331

Originally Posted By pawelj

Makes one wonder which side is Karzai on.

 

There is not now, nor has there ever been any question as to whose side Karzai is on.  Here is a news flash...it ain't ours.  He is on his own side and in order for him to remain the accepted leader of a nation filled with radical Islamic animals, he has to publicly appeal to their sensibilities.  By condemning this "action," he is doing exactly that...

 

On the other hand, while personally, this sort of thing doesn't make me shed tears, our Marines are trained to be smarter than this. Regardless of whether we like it or not, this sort of nonsense has repercussions on the battlefield.  If they are going to waste their time doing this crap, they need to absolutely avoid getting caught doing it on video.  As Okult13 has so adroitly noted, it will "leak."

Any official reaction to this quite frankly trivial matter, shows our weakness. It plays into the enemy's agenda. It makes no difference on the opinions of those that that hate us. This only serves to legitimise Islamists  views. It undermines "hearts and minds" at home. It was the height of stupidity for Panetta and Clinton to have made any comment on this.

As JH points out, there will be repercussions on the US and allied troops. As an Aussie, with friends currently on ops there, not a smart action.

As much as I despise the Taliban, there are also basic Laws of Armed Conflict, which every serviceman understands. Would not like to see a dead friendly receive the same treatment. It is all that separates us from animals.

Just my thoughts, not a bleeding heart, just an ex-professional infantryman's view.

I have never been in combat, so I will always defer to the professional soldiers here.  I have never had a friend killed in front of me who was alive seconds ago.  If I did I would piss on the bastard who killed my mates in a heartbeat, and laugh, knowing I had revenged my comrades.  There is good, evil, and very bad people who hate our country simply because of who we are.  Our troops have seen things that I only see in nightmares, and I will not judge these brave mens' conduct on the battlefield over slain enemies, who we as the US sent them there to fight.  War is ugly, vicious, and to survive and come home, to your loved ones, will force anyone in my mind to take on those attributes or end up dead. 

Their mistake? A lack of discretion at that moment in time, and may God have mercy on their lives, because our government who sent them there to do the dirty work won't. 

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”   Allen West

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html

I love this guy's thinking because he walks the talk.

Jarhead is right.  This sort of incident demonstrates not only stupidity, which is bad enough, but indiscipline, which is even worse.  These Marines know what they are doing is against regulations.  Forget the moral issue or whether it is tasteless, if I were the commander of these men I would wonder what other parts of my guidance they were choosing to ignore and what other idiotic things they were doing when I'm not around.   

...the leadership lesson:

motto of the day is  "Let's Kick Ass and Take Names" and not "Kick Ass and Take Pictures"

its a fall back in the international (PC)-propaganda war for sure ... but i dont think the Taliban would plant one IED less from their stockpile, (or fight less asymmetric) if that 'incident' had not happened or would not have been so foolishly good documented, so it could leak out the combat zone (...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas... and our players in Stan play with the highest ante available ...their lifes)

Those medieval tribals hate the West by our guts! ... if we bomb them with milk powder, health goods and Greenbacks or just MK 84s, doesnt matter

i bet they hate 'Coke Zero' being forecd down the living throats of their youngsters (just by providing the oportunity) even more then piss down some martyrs dead ones     

Originally Posted By gocrows

As JH points out, there will be repercussions on the US and allied troops. As an Aussie, with friends currently on ops there, not a smart action.

 

As much as I despise the Taliban, there are also basic Laws of Armed Conflict, which every serviceman understands. Would not like to see a dead friendly receive the same treatment. It is all that separates us from animals.

 

Just my thoughts, not a bleeding heart, just an ex-professional infantryman's view.

There will be repercussions to all of us, not just troops, for the appearance of weaknes by our so called leaders. Any punishment and even acknowlegment of this is just plain stupid. There are no Laws of Armed Conflict when dealing with Islamists. Any laws fighting agaist them would only affect us and to subject ourselves to it would also be very stupid.

It is a maxim of asymetric warfare to use the actions of the stronger party to arouse

support for the weaker.  Stuff like this earns support for the enemy.  A lot of these cultures

see moral outrage to the point of what we would consider insanity to be an apropriate

response to provocation.  We aren't dealing with people who can overlook this sorta thing.

It is hard to explain to some one who hasn't seen a normal well behaved person flip

out completely because some body called him a pig or a dog.  We do it in fun all the time.

In general everywhere everything that is recorded by modern means is avaliable worldwide

in moments.  Instead of killing those guys and pissing on them they could have just given

them more weapons and ammo and sent them on their way with a cheery "Hope you kill us next time!"

I know why they did it - but look what happened.

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

Originally Posted By pawelj

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

We tried that...its been what 10 years? Allow CAS, disallow CAS, special ops to kill leadership cadre, special ops to kill facilitators, drones to kill the Taliban and its supporters in Pakistan. What more would you suggest be done? Drop a nuke on Khandhar? Its a bit late in the game to suggest using even more brutal methods will win this considering the game is all but over. As long as the Taliban has sanctuary in Pakistan the war in Afghanistan will NEVER be won. Its that simple. And its also the reason why NATO and the US is looking for exit timelines. We should have had this discussion in 2006. Now its a bit belated.

Originally Posted By pawelj

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

Well one new rule is you can't urrinate while facing east.

Originally Posted By ActionJack

Well one new rule is you can't urrinate while facing east.

they can enforce the direction but not the 'target'

( ....just found this on the Internet: design your own urinal screen  http://peepeeface.com/order/index.php 

Originally Posted By pawelj (17 JAN 2012 4:29am)

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

Really? Do you think, as an occupying army, we can "win" through intimidation? Really?

Show me, anywhere in history, where an occupying army can win an insurgency war, by being applying more force, and pissing off the local populace still further.

Karzai is an idiot, but he is like any politician looking to stay in power and says what he has to in order to win people over. Simple politics. Would have figured you guys would have known that. But wait, you couldn't, because your responses aside from the last post were simply stupid.

Think of it this way. If that had been images of Taliban pissing on dead Americans, Canadian, French or whoever elses soldiers are there, it would have been used as fodder, and there would have been outrage. Pretty basic, but obviously the basics miss you guys.

Can you at least think a little before you respond.

Originally Posted By DennisS (24 JAN 2012 8:05pm)

Originally Posted By pawelj (17 JAN 2012 4:29am)

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

 

Really? Do you think, as an occupying army, we can "win" through intimidation? Really?

 

Show me, anywhere in history, where an occupying army can win an insurgency war, by being applying more force, and pissing off the local populace still further.

Examples?

Soviet Union in Eastern Europe post 1945. Western Allies in Germany post 1945.

Taliban use intimidation, but I guess you would not call them occupiers. 

Originally Posted By pawelj (25 JAN 2012 2:45am)

Originally Posted By DennisS (24 JAN 2012 8:05pm)

Originally Posted By pawelj (17 JAN 2012 4:29am)

Originally Posted By Seytan

It creates propaganda for the enemy. I can assure you that video convinced some old muji to go ahead and send one of his sons to Jihad against the infidel in Afghanistan. Further our military needs to be smarter then this. Having the biggest club is nice, using a brain is even better.

I disagree completely. The fact at we are "infidel" is enough of a propaganda. What other trivial behaviour we need to watch out for? Drinking in public? Maybe we should force all women to cover up lest we provide propaganda. This sort of self-cencorship is getting insane.

The only way to win is through intimidation. They must be more scared of us then they are of their immaginary god. The way things are is that we seem to be more scared of them. This frightened behaviour is definately not an example of using brains.

 

Really? Do you think, as an occupying army, we can "win" through intimidation? Really?

 

Show me, anywhere in history, where an occupying army can win an insurgency war, by being applying more force, and pissing off the local populace still further.

Examples?

Soviet Union in Eastern Europe post 1945. Western Allies in Germany post 1945.

Taliban use intimidation, but I guess you would not call them occupiers. 

 

Really? Western allies as an occupying army? I lived in Germany, from 1958 to 1963, again from 1970 to 1974, and was stationed in England in the late 70's into the early 80's. Funny...I never felt like I was part of an occupying army, fighting an insurgency warfare.

Your analogy is lame, even by this board's standards.

Even in Eastern Europe, where the Soviet army had massive encampments, there wasn't "insurgency war." They had Hungary, in 1953, East Germany in 1956, and Czechoslovakia in 1968...but those were uprisings, and quickly crushed.

Again, you cannot demonstrate to me ANY time in history where a military occupying force was able to permamently subjugate a local populace by violence, and threat of violence.

What makes you think that we have any chance in hell of doing this in Afghanistan? ... and, to make matters worse, every time we piss on a corpse, or kill another 30 women and children, it just makes it even more unlikely.

Originally Posted By DennisS (25 JAN 2012 3:47pm)

 

 

Your analogy is lame, even by this board's standards.

 

I'm all for debating the issues raised by counter-insurgency, but really, if you hold the forum in such low regard, why even stick around?

i also don't shed tears for those Talibans and war is war, this and much worse has to be expected.

still i think this behaviour does inflict damage on the us army and the marines corps. i have a better image of the us army and i have it also because we still remember how the us army was a friend in europe, these pictures harm the image of the us armed forces also in the west.

Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (12 JAN 2012 8:34am)

 

 

On the other hand, while personally, this sort of thing doesn't make me shed tears, our Marines are trained to be smarter than this. Regardless of whether we like it or not, this sort of nonsense has repercussions on the battlefield.  If they are going to waste their time doing this crap, they need to absolutely avoid getting caught doing it on video.  As Okult13 has so adroitly noted, it will "leak."

I think that it was done with the intention of getting out, to inflame the taliban and anyone else wanting to take a shot at a marine; it s daring them to come out and fight.

naturally, politicians and the commanders will see this as a step backwards in the hearts and minds campaign, but, marines are expected to be a bit unruly and aggressive aren t they ?

If those corpses were so concerned about being pissed on, they should have moved out of the way for the US Marine Corps.