Originally Posted By IanC (23 JAN 2012 12:47pm)

 

- AGEOD team is now moving over to work on the Clauswitz engine. No new ventures for AGE under AGEOD.

 

Like I said, they've been assimilated. They are now paradox thralls.

They way I'm following this so far is:

- AGEOD team is now moving over to work on the Clauswitz engine. No new ventures for AGE under AGEOD.

- The AGE engine is being turned over to 3rd parties/modders to make the next game (Philippe said they are "mostly adding their own gameplay content and data" for the new AGE game)

This is my understanding, too.

'Machiavellian' is an understatement.

I think that's all I can say in a public forum.

To Ghostryder: AGE is written in Delphi. There is a 2012 version of Delphi which is just out. Want the name of a software which is running this (how you did qualify it? old?  ) language? Skype...

http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/skype_delphi_uk_job.html

if you are of the curious type.

Thanks--I was thinking Pearl for some reason and not Pascal---so yeah a language that has been around a long time--though a pretty good one for productivity-just a little weak in OO with just single Inheritance so a bit of a higher language - Borland from what I read pretty much ignored the IDE for years and who knows what Devco would do??? Still- it inspired the .net languages

Here's a pretty good chart in language comparisons BTW:

http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?LanguagesVersusD

I now understand, I think.  I approach these things from a different angle than Ghostryder.  I know nothing at all about programing and couldn't distinguish either engine from a hole in the wall.  I do, however,  love the way the AGE engine works in certain contexts.  WIA2 is, in my opinion, a beautifully crafted game, which plays as good as it looks.  I would be sorry to see games like WIA2, RUS, AACW and ROP no longer being made.  Perhaps 3rd party people will carry the torch.

On the other hand, may be the Clausewitz engine would be a better fit for the Grand Strategic aspects of the new Napoleonic game (I doubt it will improve on the AGE engine if it concentrates on operational warfare.)  Anyhow, I'll approach the new game with an open mind (and the skepticisim appropriate for any Paradox release.)

And I really don't want to be too hard on Paradox.  I remember first seeing the original Europa Universalis in a retail outlet in a mall.  After covering the spot on my pants, I fought my way to the front of the line and (quicker than you can say Clausewitz) purchased it.  I couldn't believe that a commercial entity would publlish such a thing.  We must remember to give credit where it is due.

lol=covering the spot...

For me personally i always found the AGEOD a bit too abstract for me and had a hard time getting my head around them. Paradox games have abstraction too (talking battles) but the way they represented is different. I can see why people would be sad to see them go-but for me i find Paradox games easier to get my head around--but weaker on battle results-I really liked HOI2, Vicky 1 and 2, EU2 and 3-- and played all to death. I can't say that for the AGEOD games I own. I've tried them several times but I just can't click with them-so for me the switch is exciting as I'd like to see another approach using the same engine - contrary to fears I do not think we're get just another Paradox clone game-I think we're get something totally different from AGEOD's own angle-and it could be pretty darn good.

Time will tell--

The long AI turn times and other issues with PoN show that engine can't keep pace with a game of that scale. So it was time to move on if that's the direction AGEOD wanted to go in as a developer. Makes sense to me.

I enjoy the AGE engine games, but a developer can't be expected to go on and on without changing anything for the entiore existence of their studio.

Originally Posted By Slick Wilhelm (23 JAN 2012 11:23am)

 

The user "Franciscus" [at the Paradox forum yesterday] speculated that the game will have to cover a era that will be as popular, or close to as popular, as the US Civil War. He mentiones WW2, Ancient Rome, Alexander, Japan or maybe Medieval Europe as the only sure-fire possibilities, which PhilThib seems to concur with.

 

Based on his comments to not expect WWI or WWII yet, it looks like the new AGE game will be either Acient Rome, Alexander the Great, Feudal Japan or Medieval Europe

Hmmm... that "Hello Kitty" project title tease by Pocus sounds more appropriate now. And the Sengoku Jidai would make a fine limited area and period for the AGE engine to play with.

All this discussion made me start up a game of AACW.  Started as the Union.  This game was created in 2009.  I play it a couple of times a year.  One of my favorites.  Hate that the AGE Engine will no longer be used by the Phils.

Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (21 JAN 2012 7:03am)

 

No comment Cicerno.  The record in this thread, as well as the hatred and vitriol in your post speaks for itself.

You're right. The record does speak for itself. Why don't you go back, check it out, and apologize for being the one who made the discussion personal, ad hominum and insulting? 

Or check out the hatred and vitriol  in your own posts? 

Or you could just keep on throwing out the personal insults and then acting shocked, shocked!!! when people take it personally. 

Originally Posted By Arctic Blast (23 JAN 2012 2:29pm)

The long AI turn times and other issues with PoN show that engine can't keep pace with a game of that scale. So it was time to move on if that's the direction AGEOD wanted to go in as a developer. Makes sense to me.

 

I enjoy the AGE engine games, but a developer can't be expected to go on and on without changing anything for the entiore existence of their studio.

Well said, and to the point. 

I agree, and I think most people would, that the AGEOD/Pdox France team obviously needed to get a new engine in order to do some of the big grand strategy stuff they've started doing. 

I don't know how much they can adjust Paradox' engine to their own vision, but I hope for the best.

Originally Posted By JasonPratt (23 JAN 2012 3:21pm)

Originally Posted By Slick Wilhelm (23 JAN 2012 11:23am)

 

The user "Franciscus" [at the Paradox forum yesterday] speculated that the game will have to cover a era that will be as popular, or close to as popular, as the US Civil War. He mentiones WW2, Ancient Rome, Alexander, Japan or maybe Medieval Europe as the only sure-fire possibilities, which PhilThib seems to concur with.

 

Based on his comments to not expect WWI or WWII yet, it looks like the new AGE game will be either Acient Rome, Alexander the Great, Feudal Japan or Medieval Europe

 

Hmmm... that "Hello Kitty" project title tease by Pocus sounds more appropriate now. And the Sengoku Jidai would make a fine limited area and period for the AGE engine to play with.

Definitely suspicious.  I'm still hoping for China rather than Japan, but either one would be interesting.

So, with everyone combined from AGEOD and Paradox now working on perfecting Clauswitz, does this mean that Hearts of Iron III will be fixed?

I enjoy the AGE engine games, but a developer can't be expected to go on and on without changing anything for the entiore existence of their studio.

......I wish someone would tell John Tiller this.

Seriously though, I own & enjoy most of the AGEOD games, & many Paradox ones, but I don't have any problem with them trying something new - I hate an engine being worked to death & personally wouldn't like to see "AGEODS Battle of the Bulge" or some similar "series stretching" Tilleresque title still being trawled out in 5 years time. 

Originally Posted By Pat Cleburne (23 JAN 2012 7:13pm)
[The "Hello Kitty" tease is] Definitely suspicious.  I'm still hoping for China rather than Japan, but either one would be interesting.

A Three Kingdoms game (with leadups and followouts) on the AGE engine would be boss, although I suspect the Japanese Era of the Warring States would be easier for it to handle.

However, now we must crush our hopes along this line with the further observation that the devs say they're going to set up a product which can be easily expanded for a long time over multiple titles. While that could technically mean a Chinese or even a Japanese map and history, realistically this excludes them for a western market as over here only the Three Kingdom and Sengoku conflicts are at all popular (much moreso even known about, maybe including the Meiji Restoration Japanese Civil War conflicts of the 1800s thanks to their influence on anime.)

The only largescale area known to westeners that features many popular wars is Western Europe (out east to the Urals anyway) bounded by Scandanavia to the north and the circumference of the Mediterrean Sea to the south. i.e. the same area constantly fought over for thousands of years by most of our ancestors. i.e. the same area 90% of our wargames are set in.

So, yeah. While we might still see some topical innovation, I don't expect to see them trying to set up the messy military and political imbroglio of the Shogunate vs. a bunch of rebel clans backstabbing one another (who somehow managed to pull off a victory anyway) of 19th century Japan, or any other geographical as well as topical departure.

Originally Posted By phantom (24 JAN 2012 11:17am)

I enjoy the AGE engine games, but a developer can't be expected to go on and on without changing anything for the entiore existence of their studio.

 

......I wish someone would tell John Tiller this.

 

Seriously though, I own & enjoy most of the AGEOD games, & many Paradox ones, but I don't have any problem with them trying something new - I hate an engine being worked to death & personally wouldn't like to see "AGEODS Battle of the Bulge" or some similar "series stretching" Tilleresque title still being trawled out in 5 years time. 

...YOU BLAPHEME!!!

Come'on say it with feeling!

...You BLAPHEME!!!

Originally Posted By phantom (24 JAN 2012 2:23pm)
The blasphemer must confess to also owning a couple of Tiller games, and enjoying them - I just wish the Guy would move with the times a little graphically, games like decisive campaigns show just as much info, maybe more, and are a lot more pleasing on the eye.

I'm with you on this one. For such a mainstay of the wargaming community, the old UI is relied upon to carry many titles into the future. My fear is that the coders haven't got the abilities to bring it any further forward than its got. And as wargame addicts we have to take what we can get, so we settle for this outdated setup. I think the likes of the devs over at Unity of Command have cracked a flare off, and are showing the path forward. I hope Tiller/HPS realise that we're out there, and we will pay for the hobby we love, so please invest in developers and new tech so that we can begin to enjoy wargaming in the 21st Century and not just iterations of 20th Century tech forever and a day.

Now, Jason, you're not making enough connections.

Around 150AD, there was some kind of rebellion, or war in the western borders of China.

One of the very best generals was sent with a mobile army, to track these people down and punish them.

The general was really good.  He pursued the enemy through the Middle East, through the Parthian Empire (now that could be a game), and didn't stop until bumping up to the borders of the Roman Empire.

Clearly not familiar with the area, he first thought he was moving into a kingdom based around Antioch.

After a couple of days, he realised that this was no little, local kingdom and pulled back.

Now you could take this as an idea and start a mega war involving all kinds of peoples between the Romans and the Chinese .

NO real fight took place between the Chinese forces and the Romans, but if I remember correctly, the Roman govenor was quickly made aware of the incursion.

He was assembling a force built around four legions and an equal force of auxilia, so maybe an army up to 40,000 soldiers.

One of the curious historical "what-ifs" that game designers could include for fun as scenarios in a game, but never do.

Originally Posted By phantom (24 JAN 2012 11:17am)

I enjoy the AGE engine games, but a developer can't be expected to go on and on without changing anything for the entiore existence of their studio.

 

......I wish someone would tell John Tiller this.

 

Seriously though, I own & enjoy most of the AGEOD games, & many Paradox ones, but I don't have any problem with them trying something new - I hate an engine being worked to death & personally wouldn't like to see "AGEODS Battle of the Bulge" or some similar "series stretching" Tilleresque title still being trawled out in 5 years time. 

But aren't Paradox doing the same, using the same engine over and over again for different eras etc.

Thats why I'd have been happy if Ageod where working on a new engine altogether but keeping their art style.

I just wish JT would kick the campaigns & SB engine up a notch from igougo & the ADF to something else. How about initiative impulses or something like that?

Originally Posted By phantom (24 JAN 2012 2:23pm)
The blasphemer must confess to also owning a couple of Tiller games, and enjoying them - I just wish the Guy would move with the times a little graphically, games like decisive campaigns show just as much info, maybe more, and are a lot more pleasing on the eye.

I hear the next Tiller game will be in real time.

What effectively has happened is that Paradox finally hired a competent designer. Unfortunately, they took one of the very few designers that was making good strategy games, so as gamers, we are down one company. It has reduced our choices dramatically. 

Hopefully someone will step into the void and start designing some good, turn based strategy games. 

I have just realized, by browsing the AGEOD forums, what could convince me that this is a good thing:

REMAKE GREAT INVASIONS UNDER THE CLAUSEWITZ ENGINE!!!!!

The P'dox engine can handle buildings, it can handle migrating tribes in a way, as seen in EU Rome (well, not exactly, but something like that is there, so hopefully it could be achieved), I am pretty sure empire decay could be coded in. Economy would probably be less awesome under that engine but that is something we could live with.

The biggest trouble would be the player-linked-to-one-nation thing with that engine, since that goes against the nature of GI, but if nothing else, an event could, I assume, let the human switch countries when one falls.

Calvinus already did it with an engine which is quite old by today's standard, and he worked alone, didn't have Paradox's team behind him. The insane amount of historic info, and the whole rule system is already there.

DO IT AGEOD!