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Topic: Kim Jong-Un killed

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10 FEB 2012 at 4:33pm

0kult13

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/10/idUS232818209920120210

 

"Rumors that Kim Jong-un, the country’s supreme leader, has been assassinated just months after he took power originated on Chinese microblogging service Weibo and have now spread all over Twitter.

Others are reporting that Jong-un, believed to be 28 years old, may be on the run rather than dead, but both reports claim that some kind of coup is taking place." 

 

Trouble at mill 


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10 FEB 2012 at 5:08pm

Jarhead0331

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Okult...I'm not amused by your signature.  I've talked to you before about putting Nazi symbolism in your avatar/signature. That photograph is a shameful mark on the valor of the Marine Corps and its use in the field by American Marines is a discredit to our armed forces.  I don't believe for one second that those Marines did not know what that symbol meant.  To the extent they didn't, they are morons and they look no better for the act.  The fact that you think the photograph is "cool" enough to include in your signature speaks volumes about your personality and your beliefs.

 

I'm not even going to ask you to remove it.  Leave it there as a mark so everybody knows who you really are.


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Last edited by Jarhead0331 : 10 FEB 2012 5:10pm
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10 FEB 2012 at 5:16pm

critter

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Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (10 FEB 2012 5:08pm)

Okult...I'm not amused by your signature.  I've talked to you before about putting Nazi symbolism in your avatar/signature. That photograph is a shameful mark on the valor of the Marine Corps and its use in the field by American Marines is a discredit to our armed forces.  I don't believe for one second that those Marines did not know what that symbol meant.  To the extent they didn't, they are morons and they look no better for the act.  The fact that you think the photograph is "cool" enough to include in your signature speaks volumes about your personality and your beliefs.

 

I'm not even going to ask you to remove it.  Leave it there as a mark so everybody knows who you really are.

 

 I don't see anything wrong with it. Neither did the Marines that took the picture. It doesn't look photo shopped.

Shouldn't you be watching over the "new site."


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10 FEB 2012 at 5:17pm

Jarhead0331

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Originally Posted By critter (10 FEB 2012 5:16pm)

Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (10 FEB 2012 5:08pm)

Okult...I'm not amused by your signature.  I've talked to you before about putting Nazi symbolism in your avatar/signature. That photograph is a shameful mark on the valor of the Marine Corps and its use in the field by American Marines is a discredit to our armed forces.  I don't believe for one second that those Marines did not know what that symbol meant.  To the extent they didn't, they are morons and they look no better for the act.  The fact that you think the photograph is "cool" enough to include in your signature speaks volumes about your personality and your beliefs.

 

I'm not even going to ask you to remove it.  Leave it there as a mark so everybody knows who you really are.

 

 I don't see anything wrong with it. Neither did the Marines that took the picture. It doesn't look photo shopped.

Shouldn't you be watching over the "new site."

 

I didn't ask you.  As I said, the Marines who took the photograph are morons.

 

 


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10 FEB 2012 at 6:42pm

HarleyRider

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So ... let me get this straight ... is the picture real ?


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10 FEB 2012 at 6:46pm

Jarhead0331

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Originally Posted By HarleyRider (10 FEB 2012 6:42pm)

So ... let me get this straight ... is the picture real ?

 

Reports are that it is. 

 


"And They shall know no fear, for they are fear incarnate"

 

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10 FEB 2012 at 7:31pm

ActionJack

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Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (10 FEB 2012 5:17pm)

Originally Posted By critter (10 FEB 2012 5:16pm)

Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (10 FEB 2012 5:08pm)

Okult...I'm not amused by your signature.  I've talked to you before about putting Nazi symbolism in your avatar/signature. That photograph is a shameful mark on the valor of the Marine Corps and its use in the field by American Marines is a discredit to our armed forces.  I don't believe for one second that those Marines did not know what that symbol meant.  To the extent they didn't, they are morons and they look no better for the act.  The fact that you think the photograph is "cool" enough to include in your signature speaks volumes about your personality and your beliefs.

 

I'm not even going to ask you to remove it.  Leave it there as a mark so everybody knows who you really are.

 

 I don't see anything wrong with it. Neither did the Marines that took the picture. It doesn't look photo shopped.

Shouldn't you be watching over the "new site."

 

I didn't ask you.  As I said, the Marines who took the photograph are morons.

 

 

The Commandant would have a 'cow' over this pic.  In the first gulf war there was some hell to pay by the sniper community for giving a reporter the impression that the Corps had some counter-culture crap going on; for a while the quantico school stop giving out 'hog tooths'.

 

 


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11 FEB 2012 at 1:44am

0kult13

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Originally Posted By Jarhead0331 (10 FEB 2012 5:08pm)

Okult...I'm not amused by your signature.  I've talked to you before about putting Nazi symbolism in your avatar/signature. That photograph is a shameful mark on the valor of the Marine Corps and its use in the field by American Marines is a discredit to our armed forces.  I don't believe for one second that those Marines did not know what that symbol meant.  To the extent they didn't, they are morons and they look no better for the act.  The fact that you think the photograph is "cool" enough to include in your signature speaks volumes about your personality and your beliefs.

 

I'm not even going to ask you to remove it.  Leave it there as a mark so everybody knows who you really are.

 

No offence ment chaps and i have swapped it out for a black bloc pic, cant get any more anti-nazi than that. And yes i did have a pic of a hot japanesse cosplay girl in ww2 nazi uniform before which you asked me to remove. I did think it was a cool pic in that its contradictory and real nature. Somthing the msm sheild all our sensitive natures all from these days.  

As for beliefs, i am for the record a political athiest, i dont belive in any of them, right,left,centre, blue, red, pro or anti. 

 

 

0kult13 


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11 FEB 2012 at 5:46am

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In any case, it looks like this rumor was just that: a rumor

 

 


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11 FEB 2012 at 8:40am

ActionJack

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This is what happens from too much exposure.

 

Marines ordered to review flag incident

... “I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines,” Amos said.

Amos ordered that commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS and other unauthorized symbols within reconnaissance and sniper units. Sniper school curriculum will also be reviewed to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol, he said.

Marines from the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion who were pictured in the September 2010 photo told investigators they thought the double thunderbolt referred to “scout snipers,” and was not a racist or anti-Semitic insignia.

On Friday afternoon, two former Marines said it’s unlikely the snipers didn’t know the history behind the SS symbol. However, the logo was usurped long ago by the scout snipers and given a different connotation, they said.

Their statements appear to be supported by several photos and comments posted by Marine groups on the social media website Facebook.

“To say that they had no idea, that’s a little uneducated,” said Richard Gilbert, 27, a former scout sniper who served from 2003 to 2008 and is now the student veterans organization president at UC San Diego.

“However, symbols mean different things to different people. When I look at it, I don’t think of the German SS whatsoever. To us, it’s a symbol that represents our way of life, our training, our job skills and what we are as a scout sniper community.”

Another former Marine, 34-year-old Nathaniel Donnelly, said scout snipers were using the SS symbol as far back as 1995.

“Someone who makes it into the scout sniper platoon would know the military history,” said Donnelly, now a veterans coordinator and MBA candidate at San Diego State. “That’s just something we learn. They definitely weren’t ignorant to it. They’re not promoting the German SS. They made it as much their own as the Germans did in World War II.”

 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/10/marines-ordered-review-flag-incident/

 


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Last edited by ActionJack : 11 FEB 2012 8:41am
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11 FEB 2012 at 10:57pm

Seytan

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Using the Runes only brings one thing to mind. To many people a painful memory. To me a very painful one. I am of Polish, German, Albianian and Turkish extraction. I have relatives in all of those countrys. In Poland during WW2 my Polish relatives were just about wiped out in the war.

 

the use of the runes was in poor taste to say the least and had I been a member of this unit id have punched everyone of the people involved in the face until I felt my knuckles break.

 

I expect more from the US military which I served and was honorably discharged from. Using those symbols or this picture here is also beyond poor taste and frankly if I was the mod id have banned you outright.



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12 FEB 2012 at 6:39am

0kult13

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why are runes in bad taste, they have been around for hundreds of years. really if you dont dig painful reminders of ww2 maybe a wargaming siteis not the best choice for you. indeed if you start banning folks on the basis of political symbols what next. 

 


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12 FEB 2012 at 8:01pm

ActionJack

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Originally Posted By 0kult13 (12 FEB 2012 6:39am)

why are runes in bad taste, they have been around for hundreds of years. really if you dont dig painful reminders of ww2 maybe a wargaming siteis not the best choice for you. indeed if you start banning folks on the basis of political symbols what next. 

 


You make a fair point but consider the fallout.  Is it really worth it?  I wouldn't be surprised that the reason the Marine Corps is revisiting this picture is because it was posted here.  We'll never know but I'm certain this group had already been punished over this the 'old fashion way', but now we are looking at potentially careers being ended and for what?  Think man!  Get off the high horse because whether rational or not, perceptions matter.

 


"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."  Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

 

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12 FEB 2012 at 8:52pm

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This kind of reminds me of a fellow on another forum I frequent who was trying to "salvage" the swastika. He wasn't a neo-Nazi, or any stripe of racist as far as I could tell. (Friends of mine know him in real life). But he felt it was time to clean the Nazi stigma from an ancient symbol that for the vast majority of its history had more positive meanings. Nobody really bought it, even though he was technically right, and he finally gave it up quietly.


“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts

 

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12 FEB 2012 at 11:42pm

mkrieg

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While he was salvaging it, maybe we could include a few other items: the N word and the R word and the F word and the S word and the D word and all the other language items that signify ugly imagery to a majority of civilized humans. 

 

No?  I quite agree.  The imagery serves to remind us to (at least try) not go down those roads again. 

 

Re: the original topic -- definitely would have heralded some "interesting times" for the region.


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13 FEB 2012 at 3:32am

destraex

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I used to fly simulators with a couple of Polish guys. Both too young to have seen ww2.

They hated germans so much and could absolutely not play the german side at all or even come close

to identifying most of them as "soldiers" in a war rather than murdering SOBs.

I had trouble understanding actually, that they could be so unforgiving. It almost reminded me of discrimination that

takes place just because somebody is a different colour or when you identify a whole race with the killer of a great grand father.

What was crazy was one of these polish guys found out that his great grandfather was actually a german officer. His attitude changed a

little but he was still mostly embarrassed for some time. They have recently made contact with me again to fly sims in COD. Our late night chats on the back porch may get a little interesting as I am curious as to how he has handled this evolution in his ancestry.

 

I actually think its a great shame that Runes and anything else nordic were turned into political footballs. Most of it is tainted to

some forever. Its like the ancient identity and history of everybody in northern europe was ripped from them by one 6yr period in history.

 

I can understand on the other hand because we should never forget attrocities and keep reminding ourselves how they should never happen again. But there is also a time to forgive and forget as the christians say. You have to ask yourself why pink is no longer a girls colour and wemon swear, why the hammer and sickle is not banned and why turkish brutality is not acknowledged.

 

In Australia I see the japanese rising sun flag or nippon red circle everywhere these days and wonder why they are not banned. By rights these symbols should offend me, they say to me Japanese Imperialism, I had relatives who fought the japanese and changi prison was a horrible place.

 

I wonder when the slate will be wiped clean for northern european ancient culture. It will probably be many hundreds of years yet.

I guess not even the egyptians have been forgiven for their part in the old testament yet and it has been thousands of years?

It is not my fight however but it does present a conundrum to those who want to use basic shapes.

 

A swastika yes. Runes I don't know if they should be banned. A lot of non-SS units had runes also, but the SS runes are fairly specific in that picture and that flag has them in the perfect likeness to the SS. 

 

The other question that springs to mind is how many SS front line units actually committed attrocities.

 

Question: Are runes from non-SS units also banned?

 

I know I will get labelled here an apologist, but really I am speaking completely impartially, the devils advocate.

Perhaps this kind of thing is what keeps the world at each others throats.

 

 


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Last edited by destraex : 13 FEB 2012 3:55am
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13 FEB 2012 at 4:59am

0kult13

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Are there any wh40k players with space wolf armies, do they sport runes on thier minis. 


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13 FEB 2012 at 5:18am

Jarhead0331

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Nobody is suggesting that "runes should be banned."  When you hyperbolize the argument you miss the point entirely.  I'm only saying that the use of the symbol of the SS by US military forces in the field is in very poor taste, and is embarrassing.  I'm sure there was no anti-semitic intent, but it is insensitive and in poor judgment.

 

Equally poor judgment is when someone glorifies the image, or the use of the image, by posting it in their signature.  This, to me, is the epitome of ignorance.


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13 FEB 2012 at 7:16pm

destraex

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I certainly agree with that Jarhead. The swastika and the SS runes are the two to stay away from. The totenkopf deaths head badge another, although so many units in history have sported that badge or very similar before the rise of Hitler and after (including I think the US) that it would be almost unfair to judge it unless it was the very specific totenkopf badge.

 

Though 0kult13 is probably just trying to be controversial and anti-establishment as you imply. He wanted a rise and got one.

 

Freedom of Speech and thought they say. Rather society at this time still has limits and rules but they are very quickly being eroded.

The military is often the last bastion of sanity with regard to these rules. The boundaries lasting much longer than they do in civil life.


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14 FEB 2012 at 3:12am

Seytan

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Originally Posted By destraex (13 FEB 2012 3:32am)

I used to fly simulators with a couple of Polish guys. Both too young to have seen ww2.

They hated germans so much and could absolutely not play the german side at all or even come close

to identifying most of them as "soldiers" in a war rather than murdering SOBs.

I had trouble understanding actually, that they could be so unforgiving. It almost reminded me of discrimination that

takes place just because somebody is a different colour or when you identify a whole race with the killer of a great grand father.

What was crazy was one of these polish guys found out that his great grandfather was actually a german officer. His attitude changed a

little but he was still mostly embarrassed for some time. They have recently made contact with me again to fly sims in COD. Our late night chats on the back porch may get a little interesting as I am curious as to how he has handled this evolution in his ancestry.

 

I actually think its a great shame that Runes and anything else nordic were turned into political footballs. Most of it is tainted to

some forever. Its like the ancient identity and history of everybody in northern europe was ripped from them by one 6yr period in history.

 

I can understand on the other hand because we should never forget attrocities and keep reminding ourselves how they should never happen again. But there is also a time to forgive and forget as the christians say. You have to ask yourself why pink is no longer a girls colour and wemon swear, why the hammer and sickle is not banned and why turkish brutality is not acknowledged.

 

In Australia I see the japanese rising sun flag or nippon red circle everywhere these days and wonder why they are not banned. By rights these symbols should offend me, they say to me Japanese Imperialism, I had relatives who fought the japanese and changi prison was a horrible place.

 

I wonder when the slate will be wiped clean for northern european ancient culture. It will probably be many hundreds of years yet.

I guess not even the egyptians have been forgiven for their part in the old testament yet and it has been thousands of years?

It is not my fight however but it does present a conundrum to those who want to use basic shapes.

 

A swastika yes. Runes I don't know if they should be banned. A lot of non-SS units had runes also, but the SS runes are fairly specific in that picture and that flag has them in the perfect likeness to the SS. 

 

The other question that springs to mind is how many SS front line units actually committed attrocities.

 

Question: Are runes from non-SS units also banned?

 

I know I will get labelled here an apologist, but really I am speaking completely impartially, the devils advocate.

Perhaps this kind of thing is what keeps the world at each others throats.

 

 

 

If you are implying I need to preface my comments with Turkish brutality in mind I kindly direct you to the brutality of every empire or kingdom in the Medieval period. If you have read A Distant Mirror, for example you will see the Turks chopping off the heads of the French Crusaders in reprisal for what happened to thier garrisons in the Balkans. If you are referring to something else be specific. As a aside what was done to people of other faiths in the name of Islam at the time was no different then the crusaders putting Greek orthodox or any other faith then Christans to the sword. In fact it is well documented that the Turks treated the enthic minoritys under thier rule better then thier Christian counterparts. Some reading is in order on your part I suspect.

 

 



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9 MAR 2012 at 11:11pm

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Symbols get used by different groups.

 

When a particular group uses a symbol, and you achieve a critical mass that combines the notoriety of the group and the prominence of that symbol, it's safe to say that the group has actually hijacked the symbol.  That's a shame, for the symbol and for all the other groups who have used it legitimately in the past.

 

But it's really dumb to ignore that history.  It's even morally negligent to ignore learning that history.

 

It's up to each of us as people to figure out what symbols we use and what they imply.  We can be contrarian, and attention-seeking, and insist that we're using a symbol because of it's 16th-century affiliation with some ancient Mesoamerican group, but that doesn't mean we aren't using a tainted symbol.

 

And when we use a tainted symbol, we aren't just promoting the symbol.  We're promoting the taint, too.



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