My guess is that it will be much better than playing WIF by Vassal. (though I've never done so) Having all of the rules enforced will prevent many hours wasted looking rules up and arguing about interpretations. Plus, the Matrix MP functionality that Erik was talking about should be more convenient than Vassal as well. (I HAVE played games with Vassal, just not WIF.)

Originally Posted By spelk (19 MAR 2012 6:13am)

If there is to be no AI on the initial release, it's going to be essentially a multiplayer only version. Is it likely to draw people away from playing World in Flames on Vassal? Presumably, having the game enforce the ruleset during play? Along with co-ordinating games, with publics easily?

Originally Posted By Ubercat (19 MAR 2012 8:34am)

My guess is that it will be much better than playing WIF by Vassal. (though I've never done so) Having all of the rules enforced will prevent many hours wasted looking rules up and arguing about interpretations. Plus, the Matrix MP functionality that Erik was talking about should be more convenient than Vassal as well. (I HAVE played games with Vassal, just not WIF.)

Yeah, I think as it stands the game upon release, without a functioning AI, will appeal to only a very small proportion of wargamers in an already small niche market. 

Ultimately, if you want to play a complex board wargame, online, with friends or publics, with the rules enforced, then the initial release could be for you. But I'd imagine that narrow requirement selection of players will have already made a path to that gaming goal with the likes of Vassal or Zun Tzu. 

As soon as a serviceable AI turns up, then it widens the market big time. 

Just saying, IMHO, releasing without an AI, seems to leave out one of the essential selling points for this game, thus narrowing the initial market. 

AI is a must before I plunk my money down for a copy. AI is in the works, so prospects look good.

the exception would be if I had an opponent for multiplayer play. In that case I wouldn't hesitate.

imo rule enforcement is a huge plus for multiplayer. And not just for putting a damper on cheating. With complex games like WiF (disclaimer: have never played) it is helpful to have the software ensure that I play within the rules, especially when first learning the system. This, obviously, is a key area where computer WiF will have a leg up on Vassal.

Originally Posted By Rekim (19 MAR 2012 9:22am)

AI is a must before I plunk my money down for a copy. AI is in the works, so prospects look good.

 

the exception would be if I had an opponent for multiplayer play. In that case I wouldn't hesitate.

 

imo rule enforcement is a huge plus for multiplayer. And not just for putting a damper on cheating. With complex games like WiF (disclaimer: have never played) it is helpful to have the software ensure that I play within the rules, especially when first learning the system. This, obviously, is a key area where computer WiF will have a leg up on Vassal.

I probably will wait out the AI also, unless there's a thriving community of completely new players like myself.  I'm not going to waste an experienced player's time trying to grapple with the rules, let alone play a halfway viable strategy. 

Well, hell. There's three of us newbs right here. Let's all buy the game when it comes out!

Well no doubt I'm disappointed in the no-ai situation but I might get the game anyway and play it hotseat. At least I'll learn about the mechanics of gameplay until the AI is introduced....

Originally Posted By Erik Rutins (18 MAR 2012 10:04pm)

Hi everyone,

 

The initial release will not have an AI, but it will have full multiplayer support through our new integrated in-game forum, in-game lobby and routing server, meaning that finding and connecting to opponents will be easier than ever.  The AI was designed in from the start, but it will require more work to finish getting it to the point where we want it.  The game itself is a monumental task, beyond any other wargame we've released in terms of the required development time and complexity, including WITP and WITE.  This is way, way beyond the CWIF version noted above and Steve Hokanson has been working on this non-stop for many, many years beyond that old code base and incomplete release.

 

For fans of World in Flames or monster wargames this release will deliver a way to finally play WIF without devoting a room to it and allowing you to play it with opponents over the internet without having to get together at a convention, along with the luxury of saving the game and finishing it as time allows without fear of pets or other family members disturbing the board.

 

A lot more details will be coming as we get closer to release, but it's important to emphasize that the initial release will not include an AI, but the AI is in the works and will be avialable later.  More info on how and when once we announce the release date.

 

Regards,

 

- Erik

 

OMG I can see it now.....DLC of the future an AI for your games.

Originally Posted By Wolverine101 (19 MAR 2012 12:41pm)

 

 

OMG I can see it now.....DLC of the future an AI for your games.

 

 

It will be re-released for $60 once the AI gets done.  Call it the Admiral's/Emperor's/A World Divided/Ultimate Edition.

Originally Posted By Ubercat (19 MAR 2012 11:06am)

Well, hell. There's three of us newbs right here. Let's all buy the game when it comes out!

Sure thing Über. If you and/or Smitty are willing to link up I'll be more than happy to jump on the wagon.

Didn't notice if pbem was going to be supported. Must remember to check see.

Originally Posted By Nefaro (19 MAR 2012 12:44pm)

Originally Posted By Wolverine101 (19 MAR 2012 12:41pm)

 

 

OMG I can see it now.....DLC of the future an AI for your games.

 

 

 

It will be re-released for $60 once the AI gets done.  Call it the Admiral's/Emperor's/A World Divided/Ultimate Edition.

 

 

 

I will be shocked if this is not the case. It sure has become the norm these days .

Originally Posted By Rekim (19 MAR 2012 1:37pm)

Originally Posted By Nefaro (19 MAR 2012 12:44pm)

Originally Posted By Wolverine101 (19 MAR 2012 12:41pm)

 

 

OMG I can see it now.....DLC of the future an AI for your games.

 

 

 

It will be re-released for $60 once the AI gets done.  Call it the Admiral's/Emperor's/A World Divided/Ultimate Edition.

 

 

 

 

I will be shocked if this is not the case. It sure has become the norm these days .

 

 

 

Pure speculation on everyones part but it is a valid point...I think I'll now consider very carefully whether or not to buy the game until I see in writing how the AI will be introduced from a pricing concern.....

i dont think youll see an AI for years

Unless theres a concerted effort from the community to get some people together to play, I can't see even myself stumping for this one - without the prospect of an AI to play against. I suppose if I'd had the time and inclination previously, I'd have played it on Vassal by now.

They need to do something to allow players to learn the game.

I had the original board game plus a few extensions and played in for hours but never against another player except one time two of us spent  a weekend setting it up and then I needed the space.

I am a big fan of multi player computer games especially ones which mimic a table of gamers but they are rare birds.

You only way this would work for me is if I could play against myself ala the board game but I would want it to be incorporated into the game not some funky system where I have to sign in to different email accounts.

That would allow me to pursue different strategies and learn the game mechanics (again).

Signing up to play a complete stranger while wrestling the interface and game mechanics just ain't gonna happen for me. 

However if  it took off with good reviews and the usual playing guides are available I would love for it to happen. 

The board game rules are so convoluted or the game so open-ended that they can't program an AI to take advantage of it?

AI is very hard to program.  Would be easier if you built a ruleset based on what the AI can do and not the other way around.  But that won't be WIF anymore. 

Originally Posted By jomni (19 MAR 2012 6:38pm)

The board game rules are so convoluted or the game so open-ended that they can't program an AI to take advantage of it?

AI is very hard to program.  Would be easier if you built a ruleset based on what the AI can do and not the other way around.  But that won't be WIF anymore. 

 

Another thing that struck me recently while attempting to convert over (mostly for fun) a solitaire wargame to the ipad... board wargames are incredibly complex when it comes to phases, sub-phases, exceptions to rules, etc.  Most computer wargames, even really complex ones, are relatively simple in the turn structure... Even where there is complexity, it's usually hidden and handled automatically, leaving you to focus on the strategy, and less on the turn structure.   

I think the game looks fantastic even without an AI, but its good to have that out there.

This is exactly the game that benefits from a structure even without an AI. How may hours of each WiF board game is spent trying to figure out the appropriate rule in so many cases? 

I'm normally exclusively an AI player - but was thinking this would be worth some investment - but I am a little worried about how it's going to play.

I mean - I saw the release of Empire in Arms and by staying close to the boardgame for play process - and it was a disaster by all accounts. The turn process just did not lend itself to playing on a computer between several players - having several years being touted as an estimate of how long it would take to play out a full game with regular turns between players

So - I'm not sure about this. I don't know how the boardgame played - but I read that it wasn't purely a turn based game in that each player could interject at points in play.

Anyone got any ideas on it? Is this just going to be online real time ala Hearts of Iron?

AFAIK there are various phases that go back and forth - Barthheart and I had a vassal tutuorial about a year ago with JJ Denver and man is it a complicated game - i seriously underestimated what was required and we both quit after 2 turns, ashamed and disappointed but it was just EPIC.

The one thing i see as a good thing with the new release is all the rules sorted, it isnt a question of opinion or debate - the computer will always remember attacking over a mountain is at a disadvantage and that the defender gets a bonus - stuff thats easy to slip by when youre new

Originally Posted By undercovergeek

 

.......and man is it a complicated game - i seriously underestimated what was required and we both quit after 2 turns, ashamed and disappointed but it was just EPIC.

 

I asked that question when the forum was new many years ago.  In a PBEM game each turn requires many emails back and forth making a PBEM game impossible!

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