Napoleonic Battles: Campaign 1814, covering Napoleon's desperate attempt to save his empire after the Battle of Leipzig.  Just announced at http://johntillersoftware.com/

The Marengo spoiler in manual is a TRAP!!!!

LOL, i miss more than a blind drunk gunner in a T-55 aimint to a fly at 2.000m

Trap or perhaps something for the future?

Well future... we can see in the future peninsular titles but you know with HPS/tiller games future word is  is like coming soon... PzB is coming soon since october 2010

Marengo could be the 2nd title for this year, 1814 is the title that had a fast development.

PD: i prefer sometimes see titles from other series (M&P, PzB, PzC, MC, EAW. WWI) if no peninsular titles are released

Why do we have to put up with this sub-standard graphical shit? Someone at JTS sort it out, FFS! Put some money into the art department - would you?

http://johntillersoftware.com/NapoleonicBattles/Campaign1814/1814_7.png

Theres no musket to your head forcing you to "put up with it"

I like the graphics, functional, clear and since they are BMP's even a graphical retard like me can manipulate/alter them.

Edit: BTW, for someone whom primarlily enjoys HPS/JT games solo, is the recent 1813 or the 1814 game a better deal for me?

Originally Posted By The Gray Mouser (4 MAY 2012 5:22pm)

Theres no musket to your head forcing you to "put up with it"

 

I like the graphics, functional, clear and since they are BMP's even a graphical retard like me can manipulate/alter them.

 

Edit: BTW, for someone whom primarlily enjoys HPS/JT games solo, is the recent 1813 or the 1814 game a better deal for me?

Take my comments with a huge grain of salt.

I haven't actually played any of the 1814 scenarios yet, but I would expect they would ultimately be more susceptible to solitaire play after two or three patches simply because the battles in that campaign were much smaller, and the AI in these games does a lot better in smaller battles.

Having said that, as far as I know work on the 1814 patch probably hasn't started yet.  Leipzig has had several patches, with more on the way.  So though 1814 has more long term potential, Leipzig either now or whenever the next patch comes (possibly soon) is in a more finished state (or is about to be in a more finished state). 

The big scenarios in Leipzig, by the way, work very well solitaire if you play them head to head against yourself.  This is how board wargamers usually play board wargames, with the added advantage of fog of war.  Leipzig has a ton of scenarios, and many of them have real drama.

The choice for me would be very hard, because 1814 and the Leipzig campaign are my two favorite periods of Napoleonic warfare.  If I didn't own either one and had to buy one now, I'd get Leipzig first.  Same scenario only six months from now, I'd buy 1814 first. 

A note on the 1814 scenarios - the Alternate versions (called Variants now - thanks to Rich Walker for the idea ...) add in forces or change the parameters of the historical in some way as ....

History is not balanced and thus you might find Historical Champaubert a bit discouraging as the Allied player. But open up one of the Variants and Prussian or Russian (or both) forces are present and suddenly the French are up to their eyebrows in Allied soldiers.

On the 3D Field terrain: this was something I added in. The 3D terrain for Leipzig was an enhancement and looked much better but the fields were too hard to pick out. With John's permission I added in my own alternate version to the release. Thus if you do not like it do not blame Joe or Mark. It was my work and you can knock me over the head if it is not professional. I was just trying to capture the "rows of corn" idea.

Alternate art packs abound - no one is happy with those 100 percent either - basically even if we gave you the moon (stole it away from Newt G.) I doubt that everyone would be happy.

I like our interface over the "full window" approach and the day that John has to switch to a full window approach and use graphics that are dark and hard to pick out - well that would be the day I would not play the games. I play most anything John puts out because it is EASIER to follow. The only full window game I will play on a regular basis is Field of Glory Digital. And they lack city terrain and a myriad of other types too. I can enjoy that one. There are others that just work my eyes over too much and I avoid them.

There are eight solitaire campaigns in the game. I hope that you solo players out there enjoy them.

Originally Posted By The Gray Mouser (4 MAY 2012 5:22pm)

Theres no musket to your head forcing you to "put up with it"

These out of date graphics have been peddled for years! You do know we are in 2012, and not 1989. It's about time the whole Tiller engine gets a make-over. It's not a badge of honour to suffer units you can't visually see.

Current indie developers knock out better art assets that this over used stuff. 

Originally Posted By The Gray Mouser (4 MAY 2012 5:22pm)

I like the graphics, functional, clear and since they are BMP's even a graphical retard like me can manipulate/alter them.

You see, I don't think these graphics are functional or clear. They are way too pixellated and on a modern day PC with modern day resolutions, you can hardly play the game.

As for modding, sure, if I had a few months I could cobble together my own graphics, but how many games nowadays, do you have to build your own art assets to enjoy the game?

I've been there, with many Tiller titles of late, the hope that the next update will bring some clarity into the picture. But it never seems to happen.

I may be speaking as a wargaming novice, but seriously, there are better options out there. Stop churning the scenarios on the old engine, get some spirit and put some effort into updating till you're on par with the rest of the world. I mean even Jeff Lapkoff's unit sprites are visible, functional and clear to use. None of the Napoleonic or ACW stuff from Tiller comes across that way. And it hasn't done since the first release many many moons ago.

I suppose some wargamers see it as a right of passage, I mean who needs clarity in graphics, in a WARGAME, right? Well, I do! And I'm sure there are others who think the same. 

It's a sad statement to say that even the units in the much maligned Commander: Napoleon at War have infinitely better unit art assets than the whole range of Tiller titles. I've considered spending my precious spare time trying to graft them on. 

If Tiller is the backbone of PC wargaming, I think it's time hisb games got the love they deserve. I'm so ready to dedicate my life to purchasing his stuff, but whenever theres a new release announced, I'm always disappointed. 

Just my two penneth.

Everybody is different, I prefer blondes and redheads !!!.

I don't like real time games which mostly always end up with one of my flanks being swept away.

Even worse many many other games have gigantic figures or vehicles which spoil the view, and a lot combine worse graphics than Mr John Tillers games. Also a certain BIG game company is persisting in releasing OLD games with the dated graphics, I don't spend my time moaning about them they just don't get to see the QUEEN BLINK !!!.

Anyhow l'll continue to support Mr Tiller and company, great historical games, great learning tool, wonderful maps and OOB's etc.

I started modding in between PBEM turns and what a rich enhanced gaming experience I now have, tried to share it with others but most folks prefer playing, futhermore as everybody has different tastes only a handful truly appreciated my work.

This site does not allow one to post images directly from my PC and I can't be A£$"D setting up yet another account with the likes of photobucket.

EDIT I have WITP/AE and WITE by Mr Gary Grisby which are really old games which have been updated over time, and both are totally modded to the hilt, all done by many other people, so to modders everywhere I SALUTE YOU ONE AND ALL. 

Well, i like Tiller games but every year appear more games that interest me more... for example i never like a lot RTS games but with Achtung panzer OS i find a game that for me is like when i discover CC serie 13 years ago.

Talking only about nap titles maybe for me now is a combination of no Peninsular titles (for me the part i like more... i allways prefer medium battles and here this title could be great for tournaments) and no evolution in game engine... i like 2D over 3D (i mod a lot nap titles like other Tiller titles) and here i dont have a problem but the lack of engine progresion is... if you want enjoy the nap titles VS a human you need add add-hoc rules because game is to "fast" and many times you end playing more as Rommel than as Napoleon... some game engine change to reduce the speed of actions could be great... one to made units gain fatige when they spend action points (no more move all the time reserves, you need take a decision or your reserve could be fatige before see combat), introduction of a true assault column formation to force you change from march column to fight column (you need 1 turn to move reinforces to combat mode, no more arrive and fight in same turn) and maybe something to control your units to avoid combat if you dont want that they stand and fight (this rule is also good for M&P serie).

I like Tiller games, but i start to use them more and more as representation when i read a book than a game.

EDIT: first moding in all nap titles... maybe add like in PzC the 2nd level of zoom or add the option to play with bigger 2D icons are the only art part i want see.

http://thumbs.subefotos.com/dd9c3a846954a7243329b0df04b8f0c0o.jpg

Hexagon your link isn't working for me.

Originally Posted By spelk (5 MAY 2012 12:53am)

Originally Posted By The Gray Mouser (4 MAY 2012 5:22pm)

Theres no musket to your head forcing you to "put up with it"

 

These out of date graphics have been peddled for years! You do know we are in 2012, and not 1989. It's about time the whole Tiller engine gets a make-over. It's not a badge of honour to suffer units you can't visually see.

 

Current indie developers knock out better art assets that this over used stuff. 

 

Originally Posted By The Gray Mouser (4 MAY 2012 5:22pm)

I like the graphics, functional, clear and since they are BMP's even a graphical retard like me can manipulate/alter them.

 

You see, I don't think these graphics are functional or clear. They are way too pixellated and on a modern day PC with modern day resolutions, you can hardly play the game.

 

As for modding, sure, if I had a few months I could cobble together my own graphics, but how many games nowadays, do you have to build your own art assets to enjoy the game?

 

I've been there, with many Tiller titles of late, the hope that the next update will bring some clarity into the picture. But it never seems to happen.

 

I may be speaking as a wargaming novice, but seriously, there are better options out there. Stop churning the scenarios on the old engine, get some spirit and put some effort into updating till you're on par with the rest of the world. I mean even Jeff Lapkoff's unit sprites are visible, functional and clear to use. None of the Napoleonic or ACW stuff from Tiller comes across that way. And it hasn't done since the first release many many moons ago.

 

I suppose some wargamers see it as a right of passage, I mean who needs clarity in graphics, in a WARGAME, right? Well, I do! And I'm sure there are others who think the same. 

 

It's a sad statement to say that even the units in the much maligned Commander: Napoleon at War have infinitely better unit art assets than the whole range of Tiller titles. I've considered spending my precious spare time trying to graft them on. 

 

If Tiller is the backbone of PC wargaming, I think it's time hisb games got the love they deserve. I'm so ready to dedicate my life to purchasing his stuff, but whenever theres a new release announced, I'm always disappointed. 

 

Just my two penneth.

I have every game tiller has done. Even at my "modern resolution" there is absolutely nothing about the graphics which stop me from playing them. I do so hate it when people peddle there own opinions as some kind of fact. The graphics are not Total war fine, but what does it matter if they are not. These are wargames .. not games for kids.

Great work Bill.  I appreciate all the time you and the crew put into developing the game.

The graphics debate.   My only complaint is that I really, really want an additional zoom level on the 2d level.  I know that this process has been added for PzC and it really adds to my enjoyment.  That being said the graphics are often what put off a lot of gamers who have never played or haven't played a Tiller design in a long time.  This sentiment has been expressed across several wargame forums over the last few years. But for me the games and the interface are my comfort food wargaming.  I'm used to it and it makes sense to me.

Anywho....I'm excited to see how the solo campaigns work out.  It seems like a lot of thought was put into catering to the solo player a little more with this title and that is a good thing.  I suspect that HPS/JTS games are played more solo than through PBEM.  I hope this is a direction taken for future releases too.

Originally Posted By DBeves (5 MAY 2012 2:01pm)

I have every game tiller has done. Even at my "modern resolution" there is absolutely nothing about the graphics which stop me from playing them. I do so hate it when people peddle there own opinions as some kind of fact. The graphics are not Total war fine, but what does it matter if they are not. These are wargames .. not games for kids.

A game can be visually appealing and not just for kids. 

They're only MY opinions, sure. But in comparison to the whole plethora of games out there, and I've played a lot of games, they are seriously neglected on the art direction. You can't deny that fact.

You are obviously a massive Tiller fan if you have ALL his games, so perhaps your expectations of a wargame come into line with what is being offered. I'm just presenting another point of view, from one who hasn't been reared on wargames or Tiller from the off.

I'd hope my rantings and ravings would be seen as another perspective on the scene. I'd like to think the wargaming genre could be opened up to more than just 'reared on Tiller' wargamers.

I'd like to think I was presenting the case for wargaming for non-wargamers. The very reason I do wargaming AAR's on my web site in the first place. To show even such a novice/noob/luddite/clueless outsider can take in, assimilate and enjoy PC wargaming.

I think I'd like Tillers stuff to be a shining example of how to do wargames, which is probably why I crow on about the graphics, I just don't think they suffice (perhaps for people not brought up on them).

I've bought a number of Tiller titles myself (about 12, I think) but I rarely play them, especially the ones with 3d views, simply because of the jarring graphical content.  I'm not shouting them down without having invested a small fortune in their titles myself. I just hope for something a little more progressive. I mean the Greek War title has 3d unit tiles I quite like. Why can't we have Napoleonic or ACW ones in a similar vein?

Originally Posted By Bison36 (5 MAY 2012 2:12pm)
That being said the graphics are often what put off a lot of gamers who have never played or haven't played a Tiller design in a long time.  This sentiment has been expressed across several wargame forums over the last few years. But for me the games and the interface are my comfort food wargaming.  I'm used to it and it makes sense to me.

Very well put Bison. 

Graphical content that can be a bit "off putting" to newcomers. Why not invest a sliver of money to some upcoming graphical artist and net a lot more interest and custom?

Mr Tiller has some, in my opinion, strange ideas on what is worth updating changing, if he thinks he will get no more sales he wont do it, yet I for one believe he is wrong on certain issues, and things like a graphic update would increase sales and easly make up for the extra cost.

Lets take Napoleonic wargames. One of the reasons many are into this period is the uniforms. It's a major thing in tabletop wargamers and you'd expect a wargame would pnader to this. However with Tiller sgames the graphics aren't able to do napoleonic uniforms any justice at all. People aren't expecting Total War but as someone said even tin Soldiers which is getting on itself an dmade by a small indie developer put some effort into the unit's.

One reason why Squad battles isn't the game it could be is due to his ideas on what will increase sales and what wont. Sadly it means the game is stunted and no where near as good as it could be and with a couple of extra features it could be the turn based tactical wargame many people are crying out for, i.e the next Steel panthers.

It's a shame really. He is standing in the way of developments that could elevate all the games to ones that everyone wants. If he just took that gamble (which it isn't really) I'm certian it would pay off tenfold. When approached about certain feature updates I hear the door is well and truely closed.

Still there his babies so he can do what he wants. However to me he is stunting their growth and not moving with the times in certain respects or enhancing the games which have a great foundation to enhance.

There are 113 freaking scenarios in this monster & many have variants leading to 400 total different ones! There are 10 campaigns! This is beyond the ability of the imagination to take in.

There are different dimensions to a game:graphics is one & game engine is another but it looks like variety of scenarios trumps.

I would have been bored after designing 5 & run out of the room screaming after 10. My hat is off to the designer.

Now can I resist?

Originally Posted By Dale H (5 MAY 2012 4:45pm)

There are 113 freaking scenarios in this monster & many have variants leading to 400 total different ones! There are 10 campaigns! This is beyond the ability of the imagination to take in.

 

There are different dimensions to a game:graphics is one & game engine is another but it looks like variety of scenarios trumps.

Why does variety of scenarios have to trump everything else? Surely, with a small effort (money outlay) in the graphics department we can have the best of all worlds. Appealing graphical content, well researched historical scenarios and hundreds of hours play. With the right bit of nurturing it could be the set of games that suck people in for many many months and your value for money just grows with every iteration. 

Just making a point about Tiller games.

I have sounded off enough about my frustration with the game engine. There has been a gradual evolution but it is essentially unchanged after all the years I have been playing (& it has been more years than I would like to admit). I would like to see some substantial changes but they aren't going to happen.

I have learned a lot of players like it just the way it is. They appreciate the ability to play the same engine across different historical periods or across a number of campaigns in any given era. They (we - I still play Panzer Campaigns) like the idea of someone coming up with a new set of scenarios & campaigns keeping the same engine. A Panzer Campaigns player can really pick up a Napoleonic title like this & play away to their heart's content.

The graphics don't bother me at all & they don't get to a lot of others either. I don't play 3D. Many are content with both the game engine & graphics the way they are. They look forward eagerly to the next release without any big changes. This is a strength.

I play a modded Panzer Campaigns. I suspect this is as good as it is going to get graphically. I don't expect the game engine to change but would be happy if I was surprised. I also suspect John Tiller isn't going to be influenced by the siren song of selling more games. I doubt he pays much attention to our ramblings. This is fine with me.

I appreciate your efforts though. They are well-intentioned & well-expressed.

Carry on,

Originally Posted By spelk (5 MAY 2012 4:57pm)

 

Why does variety of scenarios have to trump everything else? Surely, with a small effort (money outlay) in the graphics department we can have the best of all worlds. Appealing graphical content, well researched historical scenarios and hundreds of hours play. With the right bit of nurturing it could be the set of games that suck people in for many many months and your value for money just grows with every iteration. 

 

 

I suspect, I'm just travelling a worn path, saying the same sort of things others have said before. A vocal upstart, coming into the hobby and voicing the obvious to many who have heard it all before.

I realise all my arm waving is for nought. It usually is where games are concerned - unless you're on a responsive indie developers forums (Arcengames, Starwraith 3D etc) - perhaps even Matrix or Slitherine listen to their players.

It is what it is. And with every new release, my frustration will lessen over time. Till perhaps one day I'll accept it or just move on to other titles. Perhaps Matrix or Slitherine have some fantastic Napoleonic game waiting in the wings? (Fields of Glory - Napoleonic?).

I'm sure I'll still purchase Tiller titles, simply because of the scarcity of wargaming titles out there.

Anyway, expectations tethered.. I'll get back to the Anglo-Zulu War.

The problem with graphics... well, are excellent mods here for all series then why dont add the option to use them in game as alternate icon/terrain options??? like with in map localitations names.

I am more interested in improvements in game rules, specially in pre WWI titles, because with mods at least for me the art part is covered because i play in 2D, very very very rare play in 3D.

See if works now

http://www.subeimagenes.com/thumb/uo0032-255388.jpg

PD: maybe add a little bigger icons could be interesting... or the 2nd zoom level.

Originally Posted By spelk (5 MAY 2012 4:18pm)

Originally Posted By DBeves (5 MAY 2012 2:01pm)

I have every game tiller has done. Even at my "modern resolution" there is absolutely nothing about the graphics which stop me from playing them. I do so hate it when people peddle there own opinions as some kind of fact. The graphics are not Total war fine, but what does it matter if they are not. These are wargames .. not games for kids.

 

A game can be visually appealing and not just for kids. 

 

They're only MY opinions, sure. But in comparison to the whole plethora of games out there, and I've played a lot of games, they are seriously neglected on the art direction. You can't deny that fact.

 

You are obviously a massive Tiller fan if you have ALL his games, so perhaps your expectations of a wargame come into line with what is being offered. I'm just presenting another point of view, from one who hasn't been reared on wargames or Tiller from the off.

 

I'd hope my rantings and ravings would be seen as another perspective on the scene. I'd like to think the wargaming genre could be opened up to more than just 'reared on Tiller' wargamers.

 

I'd like to think I was presenting the case for wargaming for non-wargamers. The very reason I do wargaming AAR's on my web site in the first place. To show even such a novice/noob/luddite/clueless outsider can take in, assimilate and enjoy PC wargaming.

 

I think I'd like Tillers stuff to be a shining example of how to do wargames, which is probably why I crow on about the graphics, I just don't think they suffice (perhaps for people not brought up on them).

 

I've bought a number of Tiller titles myself (about 12, I think) but I rarely play them, especially the ones with 3d views, simply because of the jarring graphical content.  I'm not shouting them down without having invested a small fortune in their titles myself. I just hope for something a little more progressive. I mean the Greek War title has 3d unit tiles I quite like. Why can't we have Napoleonic or ACW ones in a similar vein?

I agree that the isometric graphics really could use some love, but I believe all of Tiller's games can be played with the 2d graphics. That is how I avoid it

Originally Posted By spelk (5 MAY 2012 4:18pm)

 

I mean the Greek War title has 3d unit tiles I quite like. Why can't we have Napoleonic or ACW ones in a similar vein?

 

I'm pretty sure Greek War is not one of the Tiller engine games, which is why the newer games in that series are still getting published at HPS.

The Tiller engines are starting to get a bit long in the tooth.  Some series creak less than others, but generally what seems to be happening is that when he can spare time from his day job, the programmer tweaks existing engines when he feels it is really necessary.  I'm guessing that he has allocated a certain amount of time to the games, and most of that probably gets used up putting out the latest rounds of patches.  I suspect it doesn't leave much time for developing new engines or doing serious overhauls on old ones.

I think the way you have to approach these games is to think of them as board games ported to the computer.  The graphics tend to be weak, but can be improved by modding.  The question that is probably getting asked (and answered) is that if you increase production overhead by improving the graphics, will it really induce more people to buy in sufficient quantity to justify the increased cost. 

I don't know the answer to that, but am thankful that at least there are lots of games and series being produced with serious investments of designer time (as opposed to programmer/developer time). Tiller engines provide a platform for different designers to produce tours de force like  France 1914 and Leipzig.  The engines are certainly not flawless, but they do pretty much what needs to be done.  The glitches aren't show-stoppers and the AI is often lacking, but that problem vanishes when you play pbem or head to head solitaire.

Originally Posted By Philippe (6 MAY 2012 4:03pm)

Originally Posted By spelk (5 MAY 2012 4:18pm)

 

I mean the Greek War title has 3d unit tiles I quite like. Why can't we have Napoleonic or ACW ones in a similar vein?

 

 

I'm pretty sure Greek War is not one of the Tiller engine games, which is why the newer games in that series are still getting published at HPS.

 

 

None of this really actually matters- the artist for Greek Wars was Dean Beecham (he also did the 3d artwork for the Renaissance patch -which, incidentally, was a release (funny thing with publishers that have worked with different authors- they can work with the same guys at times.

Now Dean was and is widely respected, as a person as well as for his work. I know there are guys in the Tiller/HPS teams that were more close to Dean than I was, and I respect his, and his family's privacy. All I know is that he stopped posted everywhere maybe about 18-24 months ago.

All I can say is - it defeintely isn't a matter of "why doesn't so and so do this that or the other thing- as some times life just happens. People  get too carried away with this gaming stuff as if it is the only thing that matters- and frankly -that is messed up.

Don't get me wrong, I like gaming and the history- but sometimes there are other things that take priority.