Good post Stryker07-this is the kind of posts that are useful-'this is why the game is good and fun for me'- rather than a post set out attacking anyone who doesn't care for the setup calling them haters, elitists-some of which can't even do it themselves but have to copy/paste comments elsewhere and have someone else do it for them to boot.

Yes Blizzard has the carrot on a stick mmo type play down-I would hope so after years of WOW development. BTW I played WOW for two years-and I played EQ from beta onward until WOW came out and jumped over after 6 years of that-then I hit MMO burnout and I haven't been able to get into any other MMO game I have tried. Fallen Earth (a rehash of EQ in a Fallout world), EVE (about the only MMO I played that felt like a disconnected single player game of the X series-with a worse combat engine and an GUI only a mad scientist could appreciate.

However playing D1 or D2 I never played either for those reasons. If I wanted that kind of mix between simple play and MMO features NeverWinter Knights was more in line in my view-giving the player both the ability to enjoy player made worlds via mods in single player (I have played mods that would blow you away. But that's for another thread) as well as a freeform choice of player made persistant worlds multiplayer-both of which could have interesting Lore, deep quests and settings-and not being forcefeed either to be nickle and dimed by a DEV house wanting a cut from an auction house. As a former MMO addict I find the that practice obhorring-when in general such farmers have always tilted and injected imbalances in the economy of such the very MMOs I played. In Fact one of the most heard complaints I recall is of the criticisms that they never did enough to get rid of the farmers-and here you have Blizzard doing a 180 in that regard. After the last WOW expansion and all the gameplay changes that brought I saw a drove of players leaving who just could not stand the direction the title took.

That's my take on D3. In regards to online the title is indeed setup wise choke full of MMO hooks--but my comments stand. Gameplay wise there is no innovation at all. It's at a stand still. It's D2-and nothing more as Starcraft2 is SC1 and nothing more- after 10 years they have completely failed to add even one gameplay element to change the overall RTS of Starcraft or the button mashing of Diablo RTS gaming.(I was quite shocked indeed on this point. They couldn't come up with just one thing?) The core of the gendre of either has not moved--and I find that somewhat remise from a dev that at one time was the leader of both- Torchlight for example moved it forward in inovative ways with their title-and for RTS's there's so many others that have done the same Starcraft 2 looked and played so much behind the times of titles like Supreme Commander I would certainly advise anyone looking for a better RTS in Starcraft to look eleswhere with their money.

BTW these online MMO elements are not new nor innovative to anything other than Diablo itself--those elements in fact are carried to far deeper levels in titles like Second Life. If your in this for loot and a living that title can't be surpassed. Everything in that world is player created and sold.

I on the other hand was not interested in Diablo as an online flea market. I was looking for something that moved the type of play forward innovatively-because if done right- these games can be quite fun-like torchlight for example. And instead I saw gameplay wise it all pretty much even more simplified.

So the reader who wants an overall picture of the game that is concidering a buy- can now look at your post or mine- and decide for themselves if this title is for them--and we both managed that without childish playground attack tactics--

both sides are valid depending on what you are looking for.

And to the poster who says, "Oh they'll bash any big budget title and claim they can do better", another one that has not added anything useful whatsoever to the debate but insticate so the thread spirals downward-read my comments on Skyrim or Mass Effect 1 or 2-both pretty much big budget mainsteam highly hyped titles--Metro 2023, Stalker-there's plenty of good ones.

We here are fully capable of recognizing a good game when we see one - so lumping us in your reconceived and unfounded box doesn't say much at all. At least say SOMETHING....ANYTHING about the game. give but one example at least.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (22 MAY 2012 5:55pm)

Wall of text with screenhots

You are darn right I started to respond on people rather than the game. It's the people spewing their venom.

I've seen those screenshots before. They do look nice. Job well done.

But where did you see me saying that it would be a million dollar undertaking to do good graphics? Nowhere. I was just commenting on the fact that a game is not just code, which you claimed would be quick and easy to do.

Then you ramble on about why you didn't code a Hack 'n Slash game because you already did a FPS game, a genre (or the game?) you are tired of playing and don't want to waste your time on another genre that only midly interests you? Really? Is that  your argument? However that is totally besides the point. Another great attempt at twisting the discussion. And there is no need to bold your text. We can read it in normal format as well.

Lastly, you seem to think I was aiming my arrows on you alone, or perhaps you're just that spoiled that everything needs to revolve around you. Well, I hate to break it to you, but I was not talking to you alone. My posts just had reactions in them to bits of your posts. You know, like it goes commonly on a forum.

Way to go in your last post, GR. Very mature to kick someone afterwards again in a second post. 

Your closing statement illustrates my 'elitism point' precisely! Thank you.

Arguments ans statements keep getting twisted and turned in this thread.

Excuse me, I have a fun, not very innovative and a rather short (short due to the rediculously low difficulty you start with I might add), but fun game to play.

No that was to your comment- why haven't I released my own Diablo Clone? So my point is lessened because I haven't dev'd and released a diablo clone? REALLY? The Tutorial wasn't enough?

If it's that simple, why haven't you released a Diablo clone and rested on your laurels by now?

Utter nonsense, eventhough I will go along with your claim that Hack 'n Slash games are relatively simple to make (in relation to what anyway?), good graphics modelling and sound design is a big undertaking.

As to your comments on graphics-go reread them. My take is your excusing Diablo 3's lack of gameplay innovation for the last 10 years is due to other things like graphics or code...such a BIG undertaking.

Why not simply admit it lacks it inovation? Or point out an example to dissagree and counter the point. Why is everything a personal ventetta- how is that NOT directed at me? Or am I just spoiled?

I am getting quite sick and tired logging on- commenting on my take on a game-and getting peronally attacked. If it's a hack and slash I'm a Elitest hater with no point whatsoever because I haven't released Ghostryder's Diablo 3 Killer hack and slash title-

Every one of my posts in this 5 page disasater has been focused on the game minus this one. And there's 5 pages from people not saying one bloody thing about the game but rather attacking me and everyone else that hasn't immedieatly fallen in love with it-without even giving one example as they why they have. Doubt it? reread the 5 pages.

Well I haven't released any announcements for a while...but I have been quite busy. So here's one. I'm done here. I've had about enough of it. I'm moving on. I'll contribute elsewhere and you all can wallow in your pointless stabs at each other. I don't need it.

I don't understand why some people here cannot take it if their game of choice gets some negative comments; this is a forum where people discuss good and bad points of games.

Discussing that a game has not moved on in 10 years should not send people into a rage.

I say be nice to each other; if you disgaree with a post then add valid reasons or ignore.

Don't flame so that people leave!!!

I for one hope GR returns.

Ok now that we have had our chance to vent frustrations on personal notes, let me try to rephrase and try to push the discussion forward in a mature way;

The main point I was trying to make is that many people judge games (in general) either black or white. They vent their views in excessives. And everyone who tries to nuance them is being labelled as a fanboi. THAT's the point of my frustration.

A nice example of this is the metacritic value. People have rated the game a zero, just because there were TWO days of login difficulties.

Then people come here and point to metacritic values...

TWO freakin days? So what? Have patience. On each and every newyears eve the phone network goes down because of so many people calling at the same time, but do people cancel their sub with them? No they don't, eventhough you might think that the phone network company might finally learn their lesson and prevent a meltdown. Same goes for Blizzard and besides it doesn't make Diablo a bad game if anything. It's the infrastructure around it. Apples and Oranges.

The 'have patience, it took them 9 years, so you can wait another 2 days' argument probably has as enough weight as the 'it took them freakin' 9 years and a wow release and STILL they haven't figured it out', but them it comes down to a matter of the glass is half empty or the glass is half full.

It seems like in this society and day and age, people have become impatient, they are taking many things for granted and even the best is not enough anymore.

That is what I tried to get across in my post with the video.

But I do admit I've laid some bait along the way, which was nicely eaten up.

I am one of the first to admit that Diablo 3 isn't a perfect game, so have others in this thread, but people seem to just step over those remarks.

It's short. Although on my main I am now at 30hrs of playtime. I didn't rush for the main story but took my time discovering every map and doing all caves and dungeons along the way. This is what Diablo is about anyway. 30hrs is not bad, is it? But perhaps it feels short because of Normal difficulty is a laughable endeavor. The graphics aren't top notch indeed, but as stated  before in this thread; it was a concious design decision; they wanted to keep specs as low as possible to have as many people be able to play the game. Stepped over again.

The 'cartoony style' has become something of a trademark for Blizzard titles, so they can get away with it.

I also find the character models of low quality, also stated before in this thread. Stepped over once again.

But it doesn't detract from the fun I have playing it.

Diablo 3 indeed is not very innovative, apart from the super fluid co-op system. I would say it would actually be a step back to the roots of the series rather than a step forward. It might not be what you want, but that doesn't make it a bad game. You just find it uninteresting. A million (or so) others do not.

The skill system in place now, might come across as dumbed down. I would rather call it streamlined. It caters for configuration changes on the fly. Some of them already being exploited by players to ninja loot bosses, by the way!

It makes gameplay fast and furious. Less about planning? Sure! All the way.

Diablo is all about the loot. The fact that we now have an Auction House to trade all the loot instead of having to meet up in game is a perfectly fine and handy feature. Let alone its fun to browse and play the 'broker game'.

People getting their salary out of playing the real money market in Diablo 3 is very unlikely to happen though.

Diablo is NOT an RPG in the classic sense like NWN or modern versions like Skyrim. It's a dungeon crawler, a totally different genre.

So there you have it. I have critisicm on the game. But I am able to nuance it.

Yes, the error 37 was annoying. Yes I would have liked better graphics and a tougher experience on Normal, but does it make it a bad game? Is Blizzard the virtual embodiment of the Devil (Diablo!)?

I do not think so and I have no respect for the contributions of those who spew their venom without thought or nuance, nor those who wish to contribute to a discussion but end up reading only parts of it.

That might have made my reactions come off as volatile. I apologise and can assure you that they were all in light of engaging in a (firm) discussion, not to harm people.

We can drink a beer any day.

I'm just always surprised that there are one or two people in each Anti-DRM thread who believes it's great stuff. 

Hard to believe there are those who've swallowed so much of the company's kool-aid that they'd go so far as to say it's beneficial to the customer.   Unbelievable. 

I'm having some fun with D3, although the campaign is short and it's now beginning to get stale on the extra runs.   This doesn't mean I have to like every facet about it, though.  I can't think of a single game that I liked everything about, and if someone tells me they do then it's time to take their opinion with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (23 MAY 2012 12:27am)
.... As a former MMO addict I find the that practice obhorring-when in general such farmers have always tilted and injected imbalances in the economy of such the very MMOs I played. In Fact one of the most heard complaints I recall is of the criticisms that they never did enough to get rid of the farmers-and here you have Blizzard doing a 180 in that regard.

I am going to address this one point.

In WoW, and other MMO's, farmers can, and do, imbalance the game by farming, and camping. It sucks, and I hated get the relatively frequent IM's from the farmers. They destroyed the immersiveness of the game, and in general, made me angry that they couldn't be stopped. More accurately, that Blizzard (and other game Devs..the problem is not unique to WoW) didn't have the corporate willpower to break the farmers.

Here, now, in Diablo 3, please explain to me how a man farming for mats or gear will impact your gaming experience.

Really. I'm waiting.

Is he going to be ingame with you? No, not unless you invite him.

Is he going to spam messages to you? Perhaps you will see a message in the general or class chat screen, a screen that you can turn off, if you desire a more solitary gaming experience.

The auction house? A MAJOR benefit of the auction house will be to provide to you, and me, and everyone else, access to items and gold that is safe, and secure.

Does it bother me that Blizzard is getting a cut? No, not at all. Pure genius that they are first to market with this type of auction house...and look for this to be copied by all the MMO's out there. Why not? It saves their customers from logging into an illegal website, with their credit or debit card information.

How, or why, you would claim the auction house as a bad thing is truly beyond me. I just cannot see a downside for the VOLUNTARY auction house....yet you claim that it is a big reason to intensely dislike the game.

At this point, I firmly believe that there is nothing that anyone can do or say to change your point of view on this game. You haven't played it, you won't play it, but you will simply find reasons to bad mouth it.

..and that's your right.

Edited to add: If there are farmers, including the 17-year old dropouts in Topeka, Kansas, playing 16 hours a day, all they will do is to drive down the prices for the very cool items in the auction house. This will HELP my enjoyment of the game.

I bought four items from the AH last night, each were HUGE upgrades to my character, and none of them cost more than 800 gold. I was thrilled to see them, and the more people playing the game, and posting items for sale, the happier I am.

It will be even better when we all get to Inferno mode. I would LOVE to kill a boss, and have a world drop. Will I sell it? Dunno, but the very thought of finding a truly marketable item, worth real money, is pretty cool.

Originally Posted By Nefaro (23 MAY 2012 6:31am)

I'm just always surprised that there are one or two people in each Anti-DRM thread who believes it's great stuff. 

 

Hard to believe there are those who've swallowed so much of the company's kool-aid that they'd go so far as to say it's beneficial to the customer.   Unbelievable. 

 

 

I'm having some fun with D3, although the campaign is short and it's now beginning to get stale on the extra runs.   This doesn't mean I have to like every facet about it, though.  I can't think of a single game that I liked everything about, and if someone tells me they do then it's time to take their opinion with a grain of salt.

I like the game, so I, and others, are drinking the kool-aid? Really?

The DRM is beneficial to the company. Period. No one argues this.

Is the DRM a gamebreaker? Not at all for me, as they have successfully convinced me of the gameplay benefits of a secure auction house. I may, for the first time ever, actually purchase gold, and use it to enhance my gameplay. I did this, for World of Tanks, in lieu of a subscription, already.

The game has been out for what..a week? You are already stale on the game? Either you have been playing way too much, or you just aren't interested in the genre.

I have also played about 30 hours, and I have one toon at 25, the other four are at 10 and below. To get all five through to nightmare will take a couple of hundred hours or so..and then the process can either start with different builds (and gameplay), or proceeding on to nightmare mode.

This game is designed to be replayed and replayed..the dungeons and surface areas are semi-randomized for that reason. If this doesn't appeal to you, that's fine..there are always new games available.

Originally Posted By DennisS (23 MAY 2012 8:48am)

Originally Posted By Nefaro (23 MAY 2012 6:31am)

I'm just always surprised that there are one or two people in each Anti-DRM thread who believes it's great stuff. 

 

Hard to believe there are those who've swallowed so much of the company's kool-aid that they'd go so far as to say it's beneficial to the customer.   Unbelievable. 

 

 

I'm having some fun with D3, although the campaign is short and it's now beginning to get stale on the extra runs.   This doesn't mean I have to like every facet about it, though.  I can't think of a single game that I liked everything about, and if someone tells me they do then it's time to take their opinion with a grain of salt.

 

I like the game, so I, and others, are drinking the kool-aid? Really?

 

 

No, you're putting words in my mouth.

You drink the Kool-Aid because you sing the praises of their DRM, which isn't required to have a secure multiplayer experience and auction house.  DRM and auction house are not mutually exclusive, yet you keep attempting to link them together as if one couldn't exist without the other - that's why I said .   You're making excuses for Blizzard's DRM decision.

As I've repeatedly said, I've enjoyed the gameplay but don't have to like the DRM decision (which isn't needed for secure multiplayer no matter how you spin it).

Because there are THOUSANDS of players that rate it at zero! ZERO!!!!! Has there ever been a game that deserved a zero?

Well that's because of the THOUSANDS of FANBOYS who rate the game 10's when the game clearly doesn't deserve 10's and even 9's. But, what happens is the AVG score balances out to the ACTUAL value score of the game so 4.0 to 5.0 is correct for this game. I rate USER scores much higher than I'll ever rate greased palms of socalled pro reviews. I know things can be bought and sold in this industry and no one can make me believe differently when it comes to some of these review scores for games and "we'll let this go for this mainstream game like Civilization V because well it's Civilization V and by Sid Meier et al" but this independent game over here we'll stomp in the mud because it CTD's and has bad graphics and wasn't made by anybody we know. The reviewing system is quite broke and they need someone out there reviewing the reviewers.

Originally Posted By Yskonyn (22 MAY 2012 12:18am)

If you truly don't like it, contact customer support and take advantage of their 30 day return policy and shut the !@$# up about it.

I got some clarification about the return policy for Diablo 3. 

I understand you were looking for some clarification on our return policy for Diablo 3. If your system is unable to run the game, we'll return the game within 30 days of the date of it's purchase. When I say run the game, I mean the game won't even start up. 

If you have more then a couple hours of game play on the account, we won't be able to process a return for this. If you're not satisfied with the gameplay, you're going to know within that first hour. So if we get a request at the 29 day mark and your account is sitting there with a max level character wearing inferno gear, first we're going to /facepalm and then we'll issue a nice decline statement.

Note that many companies, "doesn't work on your system" means that it won't start up at all.

I had issues with one that would lag and crash so much as to make it unplayable, and I recall they refused to refund it because "it started up". 

(Disclaimer: No, I'm not saying D3 has regular crashing problems, so don't get the panties in a bunch.)

On rare occasions, it turns out to be a lost gamble.  There needs to be some issues addressed with the market's runaway EULAs making up whatever they want.  I still get a laugh about the one where the game company snuck in that the customer agreed to give their eternal souls to the game company, in their EULA.  An excellent jab at the ridiculous BS these companies put in them, by a small software company.  Yes, many people signed over their eternal souls, but they were later released by said company.

So first off let me say I really have enjoyed Diablo 3 so far.  It is not perfect, but certainly is fun.

Good
    Quick, pickup and play mechanics
    Visceral graphics
    Simple to learn
    Large amount of gameplay customization with the skill sets available
    Lots of variety in random encounters
   
Bad
    Not hugely innovative
    Server instability
    Main story arc is short
    Price is too high
   
Overall I'd give it an 8/10, and mostly because it really is fun regardless of its shortcomings. 
This score may change as time goes on.


So for the detail on the "Bad" things:
The game plays in remarkably similar capacity to Diablo 2.  It really doesn't feel significantly different.  I was disappointed to not see a lot of innovation in the game.  There is some, but it is mostly minor improvements.  For example the skill system works really well - gives you meaningful choices and allows you to completely change your playstyle by picking a different set of skills.  Or you have the changes with account bound achievements/gold/item stash.  Other innovations include the way they structured their multiplayer - while it by itself is not innovative, it is in regards to the hack n' slash kind of game.  I like how they give you a follower for solo, and take it away when you group up.  I wish they would have added some of the innovations made by other landmark H&S games (like the pet in Torchlight that you can send back to town to sell your poor quality items)

The servers had serious issues on day 1, and to some extent day 2.  Since then, I have had problems to the tune of 1 disconnect approximately every 2 hours of play.  Its livable for me, but is keeping me from playing hardcore mode (I've died a couple of times solely because the server disconnected me in the middle of a battle).  I have not seen the same issues on my wife's computer sitting right next to mine, which leads me to believe this is some sort of client/hardware/software issue.  Hopefully it will get fixed as they work out some of the bugs.

The main story arc is short, it took my 12.5 hours to complete all 4 acts on Normal mode.  That was taking a relatively easy pace and doing some exploration.  I think it is a little short, but they have provided the 3 other difficulty levels to increase the time.

The biggest issue I have is the price.  In this day and age 60$ for a game is way too high.  It's nice that it kinda plays like a mmo without a reoccurring fee, but it is really too steep.  Its doubly worse when you realize that this kind of game would do wonders for non-gamers to enjoy - but are generally going to be unwilling to part with so much money for a game when so many other acclaimed games are cheaper.  If it were not for the annual WoW pass I wouldn't have acquired the 3 copies we have for my family.


Note I did not list the DRM or the graphics as detractors.  I do not consider the DRM to be a factor as the core of the game is handled like a MMO.  It is part of the feature set, and while previous iterations allowed offline single player, that does not seem to be the focus here.  That being said - I play it solo for 75% of the time (the other 25% I play co-op with my wife and daughter).  I did list server stability as an issue, and it should be considered. 

As for the graphics, I do not agree that they look poor.  They certainly are not innovative or ground breaking, but they are not deficient.  yes the camera angle is locked, and a number of people do not like that.  But I think the camera limitations and graphics style work very well together to create the moods for the game.  Does it look dated - sure, but not because it is poorly done, but because the gameplay style hasn't changed.  Do the graphics affect the enjoyment of the game?  Yes, and in a positive way - there is nothing quite as satisfying as playing a barbarian and seeing all the bodies/debris flying across the screen as you hack your way through the areas.

Blizzard has performed the amazing trick of going from a company I could depend on to a company I will never give another penny to. Good job money-grubbing bastards. Too many times has my son been kicked off while Diablo 'automatically installs a patch', only to crash every time, fail to install said patch and fail to play. We can't play a single player game. What the hell is wrong with these people? 

Too much success breeds useless assholes that need to justify their salaries my coming up with revenue streams and not caring about killing the brand over the long term. There is zero excuse for screwing up this badly after spending ten years developing the game. Seriously, a whole lot of people need to get fired over there. I know they won't. But that is what they need. 

Originally Posted By cicerno (26 MAY 2012 6:29pm)

Blizzard has performed the amazing trick of going from a company I could depend on to a company I will never give another penny to. Good job money-grubbing bastards. Too many times has my son been kicked off while Diablo 'automatically installs a patch', only to crash every time, fail to install said patch and fail to play. We can't play a single player game. What the hell is wrong with these people? 

 

Too much success breeds useless assholes that need to justify their salaries my coming up with revenue streams and not caring about killing the brand over the long term. There is zero excuse for screwing up this badly after spending ten years developing the game. Seriously, a whole lot of people need to get fired over there. I know they won't. But that is what they need. 

I've never been booted, never failed to log on, and never had a gameplay experienced truncated by a crash.

For you, they're useless assholes. I suspect that there may be a little bias in there. heh heh.

Anyway, I am now in nightmare mode for my barbarian, and the story, through to the end of killing Diablo, was ... EPIC. I loved it, and I love the game, and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

Originally Posted By DennisS (26 MAY 2012 7:22pm)

 

 

... and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

I'm curious and I'm not insulting your choice of using the auction house, but with this type of game isn't the fun in finding the loot? I never understood why people buy stuff to make their character more powerful in games like WOW or now I guess Diablo 3. 

Originally Posted By robc04 (26 MAY 2012 10:14pm)

Originally Posted By DennisS (26 MAY 2012 7:22pm)

 

 

... and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

 

I'm curious and I'm not insulting your choice of using the auction house, but with this type of game isn't the fun in finding the loot? I never understood why people buy stuff to make their character more powerful in games like WOW or now I guess Diablo 3. 

I, for the most part, prefer finding it myself. 

But random loot generators can be real bastards, and when I constantly get murphy'd in finding nothing new for certain wearable slots, I've started browsing the AH for something to fill in.  I don't usually notice how far behind something has become until I end up dying rather abruptly - then it's time to review how far ahead my level is compared to what I'm wearing.

I wouldn't use the AH at all, and just play singleplayer until I was done with the game, but since we're forced to have everything online, may as well use it.  When it's actually up and running, anyway - it's been down more often than not the last few days.  I suppose part of the reason for the online requirement is to get all the players to think the same way about the Cash Auction House - that it's there so "may as well use it". 

I still see people complaining about an error 3007 crash all the time.  Have no idea what causes that but it seems to be a good number of people will crash every five to ten minutes.  That would be extremely frustrating.

Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted By robc04 (26 MAY 2012 10:14pm)

Originally Posted By DennisS (26 MAY 2012 7:22pm)

 

 

... and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

 

I'm curious and I'm not insulting your choice of using the auction house, but with this type of game isn't the fun in finding the loot? I never understood why people buy stuff to make their character more powerful in games like WOW or now I guess Diablo 3. 

You have a valid point. Without the auction house, I don't believe I have sufficient skill to finish the game on my own.

I am not buying items to make my toon godly...I am just making the game a little easier to play. Big difference.

Originally Posted By DennisS (27 MAY 2012 5:18pm)

Originally Posted By robc04 (26 MAY 2012 10:14pm)

Originally Posted By DennisS (26 MAY 2012 7:22pm)

 

 

... and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

 

I'm curious and I'm not insulting your choice of using the auction house, but with this type of game isn't the fun in finding the loot? I never understood why people buy stuff to make their character more powerful in games like WOW or now I guess Diablo 3. 

 

You have a valid point. Without the auction house, I don't believe I have sufficient skill to finish the game on my own.

 

I am not buying items to make my toon godly...I am just making the game a little easier to play. Big difference.

Ok, I can understand that. I've gotten hints for some adventure / puzzle games that allowed me to finish the game where otherwise I probably wouldn't have.

DennisS-you should like my review over at TheWildWildestWest.com. I even gave a special award. but to answer your question on the aution house---

IF it was only ingame gold you could call it a useful feature as opposed to meeting up in a MP group and switching ala diablo 2--but that is not what we have. We also can use cash money--simuliar to the tweekers of old buying their gear at illegal sites in everquest days--where the player often never really earned either loot or level- remembering the lvl 50 toon that took 3 years of hard play to meet up with such a guy-whose been in the game a week-with a higher level character and better equipment he bought instead of earned. We called them griefers-- and that is in no way just an added feature- it's introducing one of the worst things from the MMO.

But here's the kicker. IF, and again i say IF it was optional it wouldn't be a big issue- BUT again the bean counters even nerfed loot drops so they are ALWAYS below your level (from 6 to 8 levels) so your never be able to equip to appropiate level gear without resorting to the auction house- and no matter the angle you spin-game design by bean counters is not good. I believe the game design should be aimed at the players- and if done right the money rewards naturally follow, but with corporate intrusions to the extent they design loot drops around incentive auction house buys with cash---I can't sanely defend nor commend such practice.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (19 JUN 2012 12:02am)

DennisS-you should like my review over at TheWildWildestWest.com. I even gave a special award. but to answer your question on the aution house---

 

IF it was only ingame gold you could call it a useful feature as opposed to meeting up in a MP group and switching ala diablo 2--but that is not what we have. We also can use cash money--simuliar to the tweekers of old buying their gear at illegal sites in everquest days--where the player often never really earned either loot or level- remembering the lvl 50 toon that took 3 years of hard play to meet up with such a guy-whose been in the game a week-with a higher level character and better equipment he bought instead of earned. We called them griefers-- and that is in no way just an added feature- it's introducing one of the worst things from the MMO.

 

But here's the kicker. IF, and again i say IF it was optional it wouldn't be a big issue- BUT again the bean counters even nerfed loot drops so they are ALWAYS below your level (from 6 to 8 levels) so your never be able to equip to appropiate level gear without resorting to the auction house- and no matter the angle you spin-game design by bean counters is not good. I believe the game design should be aimed at the players- and if done right the money rewards naturally follow, but with corporate intrusions to the extent they design loot drops around incentive auction house buys with cash---I can't sanely defend nor commend such practice.

Ghostryder. I believe any man who joins the game should be on an equal footing.

This nonsense about stating up a toon for three years or just buying the gear is silly either way to me.

The whole system needs to be booted and replaced with a character system that simply lets you choose from all the gear

to make 100 different characters to play with. This would cut most of the griefers from both hard earned stats and purchased stats.

Of course then people would play the game through once and put it down.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (19 JUN 2012 12:02am)

 

 

But here's the kicker. IF, and again i say IF it was optional it wouldn't be a big issue- BUT again the bean counters even nerfed loot drops so they are ALWAYS below your level (from 6 to 8 levels) so your never be able to equip to appropiate level gear without resorting to the auction house- and no matter the angle you spin-game design by bean counters is not good. I believe the game design should be aimed at the players- and if done right the money rewards naturally follow, but with corporate intrusions to the extent they design loot drops around incentive auction house buys with cash---I can't sanely defend nor commend such practice.

Between this point right here, and the sickeningly short campaign, I certainly am a bit disgusted with Blizzard's approach to D3.

Originally Posted By DennisS (27 MAY 2012 5:18pm)

Originally Posted By robc04 (26 MAY 2012 10:14pm)

Originally Posted By DennisS (26 MAY 2012 7:22pm)

 

 

... and I loved using the auction house to get my character up to 5546 hit points, and close to 600 dps.

 

I'm curious and I'm not insulting your choice of using the auction house, but with this type of game isn't the fun in finding the loot? I never understood why people buy stuff to make their character more powerful in games like WOW or now I guess Diablo 3. 

 

You have a valid point. Without the auction house, I don't believe I have sufficient skill to finish the game on my own.

 

I am not buying items to make my toon godly...I am just making the game a little easier to play. Big difference.

Seriously though Dennis once you've finished the story in "normal" mode you've really in truely finished the game. The rest is just some carrot in front of a horse to add more power to your character but all for the same outcome the same story the same finish no new content (except for the equipment). To do it "4" times through is simply ridiculous and to spend real world money to do it is even more ridiculous and silly retarded. Now if they offered up some kind of "monetary" reward for doing so then there would be a real purpose and real goal to continue, but, I can't see continuing just to repeat the same content that has just been giving more hit points over n over.

Now you might say but that's the way D2 was also, but, I would say no it was not. What sets D2 apart is individual customization of each character not some cookie cutter premade like D3 has turned out to be. Where I put my points determined how powerful my character was in a given area of his skill set. I also wasn't restricted to just a handful of skills as I could call up any of my skills by the press of a button on the keyboard from A to Z. I made a ton of necros in D2 and tried out all different kinds of skill bar setups. In D3 there's basically one build per character and if you don't use it you lose especially in Inferno level.

Which leads me to one more thing better in D2 than D3 and that's character selection. D3 has the worst character selection of the entire series. Yeah barbarian and wizard pretty common but the other 3 pretty boring. I've never been so bored in my life playing D3 and in fact do not play it anymore.

This is what dissapointed me as well-was how fast the boredom sets in. I do not think I am alone either-I had to scrool through to page six to find this thread. Not one post in all that time. This goes to the innovation. There's many ways I could think of that could have improved play to combat the bordom and there's even more to combat the extra bordom of a second or third run through other than random maps.

The first mistake is in the random loot drops. This destroys one's ability to shout, "I just got the golden sword of tanish"- with random named drops there's a loss to idenity- which makes the search function in the auction house a joke. Not to mention you must leave the game and your group to even get there-and then they limit it to 10 items. It's implimentation is the worse I've ever seen.

Secondly the reviews...and I mean all and every single one I've read have been dishonest to the point of being fiction. Few even mention the connection issues. 99.9 uptime is industry standard-no matter where or how much if your hosted on a server that is a must and a point for refund. Even less mention the always online DRM scheme and NONE mention the nerfed loot to push players to using the auction house even though it is a must certainly on second and third play throughs.

I'm tired of RPG reviews that ignore game lore and reviews under the cloak of. "support those that support us" . The developors should be supporting the player- it is a direct contrast of interest for them to support review sites in my view and is one of the areas corporate dev houses have impacted this industry. Those of us old school remember reading scorpia - and remember true independant reviews.

One of the funniest vids I've ever seen was on kick starter watching wasteland 2 promo vids and brian Fargo is being told by a corporate exec, "let's make it a shooter." I thought to myself- we already have fallout 3. And again I thought to myself how great kickstarter is in regards to our industry- where finally Brian can make the game the way he wants to instead of how he's being told to from corporate execs.

Diablo 3 is today the top example one can point to showing how corporation run game development has changed the industry and the end result of the games we are left to play. This is why I dished out an award fitting to what the game actually deserves- view it at my site.

Ghostryder. I believe any man who joins the game should be on an equal footing.

This nonsense about stating up a toon for three years or just buying the gear is silly either way to me.

The whole system needs to be booted and replaced with a character system that simply lets you choose from all the gear

to make 100 different characters to play with. This would cut most of the griefers from both hard earned stats and purchased stats.

Of course then people would play the game through once and put it down.

The loot is the carrot on a stick in MMO and I agree until that is changed MMOs will always have griefers. The question is what do you replace it with? Maybe keys to enter the next zone?