Huge announcements over at Battlefront in case any of you all haven't seen it yet.

Epic announcement really! Going to change the way CM is done from here on out!!!

Epic is an understatement if that's even possible, but after a day of taking it in I am still amazed at the wealth of riches suddenly released when BFC's usual MO is tight lipped silence.

Some noteworthy changes in the new game Fortress Italy and the engine to be backported to CMBN:

•Moveable Waypoints
•Target Armor Arc Command
•Expanded Floating Icon Categories
•"Fog of War" Floating Icons
•2D Editor Map Overlay
•Auto-Assemble Road/Wall/Hedge Tool
•Camera Jump to Groups
•Target Briefly Command
•New Rendering Shaders
•Bump and Normal Mapping
•Improved Framerates
•Pausable Realtime TCP/IP Mode
•...and more!

All of these have been niggling issues or wishes from players for quite some time, pauseable realtime TCP is especially big. From an immersion POV I am really happy about the FOW improvements and the armored covered arc command. And if all of that doesn't do it for you, then you can look forward to another module for CMBN, the first game covering the East Front and another game of a hypothetical modern conflict between US and Russia in the Ukraine - and all within a projected 12 month time frame!! Though that may be optimistic on their part, we will see. It seems tactical gamers are going to have a full plate for some time.

Mr Grumpy says all of that should have been in the original games and I shouldn't have to pay for it or buy another game/module to get it.

Mr Happy says you knew what you were getiing in the original game and it worked as designed. You don't have to buy anything to play the original game.

Unless it is an open source game done by volunteers, programmers gotta eat too.

According to Zonzo's post you won't have to pay for it - the additions will be added to CMBN.  Can't argue with that service if true.

ross, you will have to pay.

Originally Posted By junk2drive (23 JUN 2012 8:10am)

Mr Grumpy says all of that should have been in the original games and I shouldn't have to pay for it or buy another game/module to get it.

 

Lol, I want it all, I want it now, and I want it free!

Well, I'm in the Mr Happy and glass half full camp myself, tends to make life a little more enjoyable. 

Mr Happy thinks that's reasonable for some reason?

Mr Happy thinks it's reasonable because the alternative is companies that are no longer in business or the "no more work, we've moved on" games.

There are people that would pay 40-50 or more just for an updated CMx1

I'm Mr. Grumpy.. 55 was past that magic price point for me... Two many other bargains out there, I bought CMSF at Gamers Gate for 10, fun game, but then that makes it hard to justify 55 for CMBN.

Yes, I've bought a few high price games when they came out, but there is just too many deals, and for me, I can live without CM at 55.. does it interest me, sure.. but not gonna bite at this point..

Command Ops Battles from the Bulge was like that for me.. .lol. bought it on sale, and just haven't touched it, just haven't gotten the urge.

Paid 80 for WITE, and hardly play it.. again, I like it a lot, but I really don't play it a ton, so I think that was a big waste for me.

Paid 50 for Civ V, because I loved all the other CIVs and was sorely disappointed. Now you can buy it for 7.95 at Get Games Go.

Not saying these aren't great games, just I've got that Game Attention Deficit Order, that a lot of us seem to be afflicted with.

There are some games, that I always seem to go back to and get a lot of playing time on.. like the Total Wars and the Civs of the world (yet to happen with Civ V). So games like that, I've definitely got my money's worth, even if I had paid full price for them. I've bought multiple copies of some of them in fact, just because of the sales, and the fact that I wanted to replace DVD/CDs with download versions.

I've got too many other 'easy' temptations to spend my money on..

lol.. my kids are a different story, for their Bday presents they ask for things like Skyrim and Shogun2 on release day at top dollar.. can't say "no", cause it's their requested Bday present.. Always ask, "you sure you don't want to wait till it's on sale so you can get something else as well". On the other hand, then I get to play those games as well... lol.. too bad they don't ask for CMBN!

cmurphy....I can relate to just about everything you just posted, especially G.A.D.O.  Game ATtention Deficit Order.....I love it!

Originally Posted By cmurphy (23 JUN 2012 1:01pm)

I'm Mr. Grumpy.. 55 was past that magic price point for me... Two many other bargains out there, I bought CMSF at Gamers Gate for 10, fun game, but then that makes it hard to justify 55 for CMBN.

 

Yes, I've bought a few high price games when they came out, but there is just too many deals, and for me, I can live without CM at 55.. does it interest me, sure.. but not gonna bite at this point..

 

Command Ops Battles from the Bulge was like that for me.. .lol. bought it on sale, and just haven't touched it, just haven't gotten the urge.

 

Paid 80 for WITE, and hardly play it.. again, I like it a lot, but I really don't play it a ton, so I think that was a big waste for me.

 

Paid 50 for Civ V, because I loved all the other CIVs and was sorely disappointed. Now you can buy it for 7.95 at Get Games Go.

 

 

Not saying these aren't great games, just I've got that Game Attention Deficit Order, that a lot of us seem to be afflicted with.

There are some games, that I always seem to go back to and get a lot of playing time on.. like the Total Wars and the Civs of the world (yet to happen with Civ V). So games like that, I've definitely got my money's worth, even if I had paid full price for them. I've bought multiple copies of some of them in fact, just because of the sales, and the fact that I wanted to replace DVD/CDs with download versions.

 

I've got too many other 'easy' temptations to spend my money on..

 

lol.. my kids are a different story, for their Bday presents they ask for things like Skyrim and Shogun2 on release day at top dollar.. can't say "no", cause it's their requested Bday present.. Always ask, "you sure you don't want to wait till it's on sale so you can get something else as well". On the other hand, then I get to play those games as well... lol.. too bad they don't ask for CMBN!

I'm witcha cmurphy. I guess it was around age 50 that it hit me too. Just nothing new that really shines as something innovating and different from what I've already played and seen in 30 years or so. I find myself going back and playing old DOS games more and more. Maybe Nostalgia, maybe because I like the challenge out of them more. I've been having a ball with Colonization for Win95 and trying to beat Centurion Defender of Rome again on just normal difficulty.

Recently though I went out on a limb to play Diablo 3 and paid full price for it and am just SICK that I did. I'm even to the point I'll sell my entire Blizzard account (it has downloads for Diablo 2 and its expansion LoD plus patches to 1.12 as well) just to be rid of the mess that is Diablo 3 that I paid...no wait WASTED $65 on. I hate it when I get ripped off especially when there are so many games for $5 out there now that are 10x better.

With CMBN there's just not enough there for me to waste $55/$65 on as I'm still satisfied with CMBB and CMAK and CMBO from the good old days of the Combat Mission series. I also understand they don't have a TCP/IP for WEGO/turn based play of this series just the real time version? I almost play exclusively the TCP/IP turn based WEGO way with the older series. I still have the demo of CMBN and I can't even finish a game of that.

Sadly though even the $5 bonanza of games is running out. There's not a whole lot of interest in them anymore. It's just a bunch of repeats of the same old stuff over n over n over again. But, for the new young gamers I'm sure it's a smorgasborg of fresh games for little to nothing in cost. They didn't live in the time when everything was $29.95 and up and mostly $39.95 AND $49.95 for DOS games of 2mb to 5mb in size. laffin that truely is laughable how much we paid for a 2mb to 5mb game back in the good old days.

I need another Freelancer game to get lost in space and run the trading lanes buying low and selling high, taking on pirates and stealing their cargo as well. But, it needs more than just space. I've so wanted a working Frontier Elite where you can land on planets and then explore them like space itself. Sort of marrying Freelancer to Starflight I & II. Man that would be an awesome game.

Originally Posted By junk2drive (23 JUN 2012 10:27am)

ross, you will have to pay.

 

Yes - my mistake.  I misinterpreted Zonzo's post.

Hmmm... Version 2.0 engine... CMSF not comaptible but CMBN will be... Can pay to upgrade CMBN... A truck load of new features... Out in August, 1 year after CMBN... Brand new theater... Sicily first...

No complaints here about any of that. Will probably fold when it is released.

Problem with CMBN for me is that the battles are a bit bloody & real time victory conditions are a bit fuzzy. Maybe WW2 combat chewed up front line platoons like they get chewed in the game but battles are almost suicidal. I did better in CMSF & I really don't know why. Guess it just suits me better.

Regardless I think it is fair to charge for the improvements. They are cranking out game engine & do quality stuff. Got to love 'em.

Paid update? 

Bleh.

Not surpised a bit.

We have yet to see what the price of the update will be. I don't have BN but I would be happy that it is even possible as a paid upgrade. They could have said (like CMSF) too bad we can't do it.

I buy CM:BN and i think is the last thing i am going to buy in Battlefront... they are like Mafia, pay pay pay you are here only to pay!!!! WTF expect support if they sell patches???

Thanks to God is AP : OS, cheaper and a lot better game when it has multiplayer LOL, i want see what do Battlefront.

Good news and bring it on. I don't have a problem purchasing with my hard earned dollars games such as CMBN and its upgrades. 

I'm pleased there is somebody out there who will develop tactical games of this quality.

Problem is when in ... lets see 1 year after release CM: Italy they anounce CM: Battle of the Bulge as stand alone game with new version of engine 3.0 and you need pay to update all games with 2.0 version.

I dont like at all the module system but i can wait to offers to buy them cheaper if i want them because i can play with out them... but with pay patches they break comunity in 2, you only can play with guys that dont have last pay patch and viceversa.

If they release patch for free they dont add for me the ? if they are going to do the same every time they add fixes and improvements in basically the same engine.

I can't really blame Battlefront for their methodology.  They make games to sell to make money.  Fair enough.  In order to continue making money, they need to make more games, or expand the ones they have, or both.  Also fair enough.  I would imagine they have done trends and analysis of their own sales figures, and have calculated the life cycle of any particular game from cradle to grave.  It stands to reason they know approximately how long a game will continue to sell, and how well it will sell at any given point related to when it was released. 

What comes to mind is the business model employed by Games Workshop, makers of the Warhammer (fantasy battles and 40K) miniatures games.  Now one would think that once you purchased, assembled and painted the models you wanted for your army, you'd be pretty much done right?  Not necessarily.  GW is almost always issuing new models, new units, updated or upgraded units, and new editions of the rules which may or may not make your expensively-purchased, painstakingly-assembled and hours-upon-hours methodically painted army obsolete.  Case in point... I had (still have actually) a well-put together Undead army, with a nice point range where under the 4th edition rules (which were in effect as I was assembling this army) of anywhere up to 5,000 points.  I had every unit, every hero and every war-machine available, all beautifully painted.

Then the 5th edition rules come out.  Therein, the formerly formidible Undead army was no more.  It was split up into two new ones... Vampire Counts, and Tomb Kings.  I was totally dismayed when reading the new army books, and seeing I had just enough points in each to field a very small force... nothing approaching a tournament-legal or 2,000 point army.  

Sure, I could continue to play 4th edition rules with friends, but any sort of league or tournament was no longer an option unless I "upgraded" my army to one or the other by purchasing more units, or starting over with an entirely new one.  I opted to just display my models, and haven't played Warhammer since.  I can't really blame GW for doing this... just the nature of the business I guess.

That said, again I don't really take issue with what Battlefront or Matrix or any other game company does when it comes to issuing new product.  They have familes to feed like anyone else.  When Battlefront issues a CM-game in an area I'm interested in, and the game itself is 100% stable and at a price I'm okay with, then I might opt to make a purchase.  There are far too many other games out there that are just as interesting to get all worked up over any particular one.

I don't have a big issue with the paid update (unless it has a huge price tag) since it is soley the choice of the purchaser to decide if they want the new features.  It is no different than a publisher stopping to support a game and the consumer can choose to stay and play the old version.  Now the consumer has a choice to upgrade if they want and enjoy the new features.

Can't say I'd drag Matrixgames into this picture of paid for updates. When they did Panzer Command: Osfront they gave all Owners of Panzer Command:Kharkov a FREE copy of PC: Osfront and all updates and patches. No charge. They have been patching and updating Distant Worlds for quite awhile now and still issuing free patches an updates. No Charge.

Originally Posted By Wolverine101 (24 JUN 2012 8:34am)

Can't say I'd drag Matrixgames into this picture of paid for updates. When they did Panzer Command: Osfront they gave all Owners of Panzer Command:Kharkov a FREE copy of PC: Osfront and all updates and patches. No charge. They have been patching and updating Distant Worlds for quite awhile now and still issuing free patches an updates. No Charge.

 

Yes Matrix, might have high prices sometimes (which seem to be coming down more on recent releases), but one thing they do is 'support' their customers and games.

Many games still get free updates many years after release..

Matrix also isn't going to 'limit' how many installs you can do. When I bought CMSF from gamers gate it said you could do three installs (no way to deactivate), then if you wanted to do that last 'paid' update from Battlefront, I believe it said it was going to change it to two (not sure on the numbers, but I know the patch made it one less)..

BTW Gamersgate when I had to rebuild my system was very accomodating in helping me reinstall CMSF (I had installed it already on three systems in my house, so with the rebuild, I couldn't reinstall under CMSF DRM.

Originally Posted By Hexagon (24 JUN 2012 3:44am)

I buy CM:BN and i think is the last thing i am going to buy in Battlefront... they are like Mafia, pay pay pay you are here only to pay!!!! WTF expect support if they sell patches???

 

Indeed. 

I gave Battlefront a second try, purchasing the Commonwealth pack, and three months later I'm told I must pay for the next update. 

O well.  G'bye.

So I assume that those who object on principle to a 'paid update' for CMBN will obviously not be purchasing the forthcoming paid update for CKII?

I don't understand the 'add-on's should be free' attitude.....patches that fix broken game play mechanics promised at time of sale should be free, but add-on's are different.   You get what you paid for when you made the original puchase, and knew what you were getting and not getting at the time of that purchase.  When add-on's are offered there should be cost....that's how companies make money and continue to exist.  That a competitor company decides, for whatever reason, to offer some add-on's for free has nothing to do with it, if they can do it and continue to thrive, grow and make money....then more power to them.    Book and movie sequels aren't free....and they really are nothing more than add-on's to the original story.  If I buy a laptop then later decide to 'add-on' external speakers.....I'll have to pay for them.