I read somewhere that for some versions of windows 8 - the proposed "Windows Store" is, and I quote ... "going to be the only way to install and download games". Anyone know what that means ?  I know valve has said windows 8 "is a catastrophe" presumably as it threatens their platform. I cant believe microsoft are going to be this dumb as surely it will lead to very low adoption .. anyone know more specifically what is meant by this ?

This may help: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377

Sounds alarmingly like they're locking sh*t up Apple-style in Win8. 

I hope it's just overblown alarmism on Mr Steam's part.

There's a reason Microsoft has the most popular OS - because they don't run it like a tyrant.  I'd hate to see that change.

Sounds like Linux gaming might be about to have its day in the sun.

Originally Posted By Nefaro (27 JUL 2012 5:54am)

Sounds alarmingly like they're locking sh*t up Apple-style in Win8. 

 

I hope it's just overblown alarmism on Mr Steam's part.

 

There's a reason Microsoft has the most popular OS - because they don't run it like a tyrant.  I'd hate to see that change.

Yes - well thats the article I read and yes agree it sounds like they are trying to do an apple. I would like to know what "some versions mean" if its just mobile or tablets then not much of an issue but if its PC's then its very very bad news if thats what they are intending. I presume mr valve has got his information from somewhere and as its the biggest online game store I would presume he isnt a dumb ass so he has a basis for his outburst. I wouldnt put something like this past microsoft at all but I think it will come back to bite them in lack of adoption and development though. If they stick on 30% for their cut games are going to become unmarketable at the prices that would need to be charged. If they are actually trying to do this then I think its a huge mistake.

There is a windows store in windows8. However you do not have to sign into it or even create an account for it.

As far as I can see (and I have not tried to install steam on it) its windows7 with a tile interface thrown on top.

I have heard though that the tiles are hard to code or may even be locked out to all but microsoft authorised software.

But then everything I have installed thus far has got its own tile (loads of old testing software).

The tiled interface can go jump, well thats my early take. I hate it and I hate the lack of "windows" I can control.

Lucky you can use the windows desktop.... albiet they ruined the start button.

Windows8 is more advanced than 7 in a lot of ways. Will be great for tablets.

W7 users have a few years to hang on before having to do something but XP users are getting close to the end.

I keep up with ubuntu version of linux for when I have to make a choice.

I think we could see a shift to openGL graphics and MAC/linux gaming soon.

Originally Posted By BlondKnight (27 JUL 2012 5:59am)

Sounds like Linux gaming might be about to have its day in the sun.

Unfortunately, no.

The reason Microsoft Windows rules the gaming PC world is Directx, which is a large collection of programming interfaces to PC hardware.  The alternatives that are available for Linux (and other OS's) like OpenGL, etc. etc. simply aren't popular, due to a number of factors which I won't go into.  At this point, it would take most game developers a very, very non-trivial amount of time and money to gain the capacity to make their games on anything other than Directx.

Game developers don't really care who is getting a cut of the delivery pie.  Most of them will be just fine with switching from Steam to a Microsoft-owned game purchasing platform.  For game delivery companies, like Valve, a closed ecosystem Microsoft platform (just like the iTunes store) is obviously a catastrophe.

Originally Posted By Qualm (27 JUL 2012 6:58am)

Originally Posted By BlondKnight (27 JUL 2012 5:59am)

Sounds like Linux gaming might be about to have its day in the sun.

 

Unfortunately, no.

 

The reason Microsoft Windows rules the gaming PC world is Directx, which is a large collection of programming interfaces to PC hardware.  The alternatives that are available for Linux (and other OS's) like OpenGL, etc. etc. simply aren't popular, due to a number of factors which I won't go into.  At this point, it would take most game developers a very, very non-trivial amount of time and money to gain the capacity to make their games on anything other than Directx.

 

Game developers don't really care who is getting a cut of the delivery pie.  Most of them will be just fine with switching from Steam to a Microsoft-owned game purchasing platform.  For game delivery companies, like Valve, a closed ecosystem Microsoft platform (just like the iTunes store) is obviously a catastrophe.

 

Well yes - but I was also thinking more of the small independent publishers like matrix etc - they dont even go via steam now and what the story seems to be implying is that everything will have to come via the microsoft store.

Originally Posted By junk2drive (27 JUL 2012 6:56am)

W7 users have a few years to hang on before having to do something but XP users are getting close to the end.

 

I keep up with ubuntu version of linux for when I have to make a choice.

 

I think we could see a shift to openGL graphics and MAC/linux gaming soon.

I think 2013-14 is the end of the road for XP SP3.

On some versions of Windows 8, it will be the only way to get downloadable software such as games.

I'm trying to think how this makes sense. If M$ really wants to tighten things up and enforce their store as the only way to purchase downloadable software, why would they make this mandatory on only "some versions"?

Originally Posted By Qualm (27 JUL 2012 6:58am)

Originally Posted By BlondKnight (27 JUL 2012 5:59am)

Sounds like Linux gaming might be about to have its day in the sun.

 

Unfortunately, no.

 

The reason Microsoft Windows rules the gaming PC world is Directx, which is a large collection of programming interfaces to PC hardware.  The alternatives that are available for Linux (and other OS's) like OpenGL, etc. etc. simply aren't popular, due to a number of factors which I won't go into.  At this point, it would take most game developers a very, very non-trivial amount of time and money to gain the capacity to make their games on anything other than Directx.

 

Game developers don't really care who is getting a cut of the delivery pie.  Most of them will be just fine with switching from Steam to a Microsoft-owned game purchasing platform.  For game delivery companies, like Valve, a closed ecosystem Microsoft platform (just like the iTunes store) is obviously a catastrophe.

 

And this could be the downfall of Steam and all your games you've bought from them when they go bankrupt. Say bye bye to your gaming library those of you who fell into the trap. I can only imagine though the legal uproar Steam would make with "monopoly" tied to it to take away their customers for the monopolistic Microsoft store.

This is why I'm glad I bought most of my games from Gamersgate as I have them all backed up twice on separate media devices. It's very easy to do once you know how and you can save the setup files for as long as you can keep at least one of your hard drives operational. I also copy and store my CD keys or registation keys offline and online so I'm prepared for the worst except for the handful of Total War games that require Steam to activate and run.

Originally Posted By Wolverine101 (27 JUL 2012 10:02am)

...I have them all backed up twice on separate media devices... 

I have you beat, I replicate my game backups to two drives on my primary server and to my SAN.

And yes, I want a cookie.

I was thinking the same thing.

Put your steam in offline mode and hope it never wants to authenticate again.

What's all the uproar? Have an i-phone? Can't view my site movies as they are flash. Have a mac? Then you might as well own an unupgradable Xbox360. Seems they are as popular as ever- yet when Microsoft comes out with the same exact buisness model "it's a monopoly", "alarming!" 

Oh not so for Apple? But Microsoft?

Truth is Apple has cornered the mobile market and Microsoft has had no product to compete. Now they do. And given the choice i'll take a Microsoft enabled device over an Apple's overpriced Korean Manufactured piece of prioritory crap any day.

For the PC? It's not the intended market. Why concider it at all? Win7 is fine.

Steam? What buisness does steam have to do with mobile devices? NONE! If your using an iphone you buy those mobile games through Apple's app store, if you own a Microsoft mobile device you buy them through theirs. Steam doesn't, nor shouldn't have anything at all to do with it. When they start selling a mobile device with their own OS and providers then they can sell apps through their mobile store./ until then they are just trying to cut into a market they have not pioneered nor did a single thing whatsoever to be a part of. And given the limited power of mobile devices the last thing i want constantly eating my battery is the Steam client.

Ghostryder I am assuming (and can find out for sure if you want) that PC and Notebooks purchases will henceforth be forced to include win8. I know that everything sold now until mid feb has a $15 upgrade to win8.

What does this mean? It means that win8 may be downgradeable to win7 under certain circumstances (again I would have to check). But that for the most part users will be stuck with win8.

Like the old dictum, Microsofts second OS is always a shocker.

Win8 from what I have seen is for the touch market not the phone market. We have winphone8 for that.

However as you indicated the touch market is primarily at this point for the phone style, low powered apps. 

I wanted to see this change with win8. I wanted to see uber powerfull tablets with full powered wargames. 

This will come to pass and steam will still be on win8..... I am not really understanding why steam says its locked out however?

Have microsoft locked the tile system of the metro interface away from them? I did hear a rumour that only microsoft approved developers would get access to this code.

I will install steam on my win8 system next time I use it. I am sure it will install, but will be hidden on the normal win7 style desktop rather than at the forefront of the metro tile interface. Microsoft apps will have their own individual highly stylised icons on the metro ribbon, while steam will be one tiny icon in the corner of a generic tile. I cannot confirm this, but am saying this may be what the fuss is about. Essentially the MS store apps will take pride of place and be easy to use compared to legacy desktop apps.

Microsoft had to release Windows 8. win 7 is terrible on mobile devices. They need an operating system geared to the power managment requirements of these devices...be it a tablet or phone.

Their version of the app store--which is no different than apple's or Nolkia's or droid's- has absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Steam or desktop applications.Touchscreen can be for All-in -one PC's, yes..I view these as upright laptops with larger monitors---which is what they essentially are- but in general this is about the mobile market. What these companies are crying about is they are being locked out essentially the very same way they are locked out of iphones or droids. They want to sell their apps and run their crap client software piggyback on on MS and apple built without offering any cut to either.

Steam or the games they peddle have zero presense on iphones, tablets, droids, or whatever. Nor have they made any attempt to have one.

When I left Microsoft back in 2000 I got my alpha of windows XP as i always did of forthcoming Os's. Let me tell you. The media player blew the competition out of the water. The firewall was rock solid. Before it even went beta these bits were gutted to comply with all the court rulings from Zone alarm, rapsardy, realplayer...etc. The windows user had absolutely no reason to buy their inferior products if what was in the alpa went live. So the courts make Microsoft intentionally gut theirs--and we-the users get screwed again and are forced to go to overpriced third party software.

When apple does this nothing happens. I ask...what the hell gives? You can run itunes on windows but not media player on a mac? It is perfectly acceptable that a developer has to sell their application through apple's app store-and hence get access to the iphone's OS and gui elements, (I know because I use UNITY 3d and am well aware of what it takes to get anything published on an apple product as a delveloper.) and I have to go through UNION to do the same thing with a droid or any other moble device (20 percent cut) and all Microsoft is doing here is the same thing. That's it. That's all.

On the desktop/laptop Steam will work as usual and so will all games- and as usually Microsoft maintains the 3 OS rule so there is no compelling reason (especially if it's crap like Vista) to upgrade to Windows 8 nor will there be for 2 operating system releases after that. What the manufacturer chooses to use is up to them, and as usual that is market driven.

All this will do is open the moble market up so instead of paying $500 for a crap i-tablet your be able to get an ASUS tablet at $199 that will blow the apple's overpriced junk out of the water.

The fact the morons at Steam won't be able to screw with any of this is a huge plus in my view. The very last thing we need is for those clowns to enter the mobile market. Theur attempt to enter it through arguments on touch screen GUI's is weak, as Apple has had all-in-one's on the market for a very long time and they don't get access to that either.

Me I am completely perplexed why any sane person would want a touchscreen desktop to begin with. I'm constantly cleaning my monitor as it is, the last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the damn thing. But let's not forget there's plenty of Windows versions touchscreens out there for the desktop and wether it's driven by the OS (win

Originally Posted By ghostryder (27 JUL 2012 9:30pm)

Me I am completely perplexed why any sane person would want a touchscreen desktop to begin with. I'm constantly cleaning my monitor as it is, the last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the damn thing. But let's not forget there's plenty of Windows versions touchscreens out there for the desktop and wether it's driven by the OS (win

or an HP app is meaningless and certainly not a compelling reason to allow them to do on windows mobile device what they've never been able to do on an apple mobile device. 

Ah...i always think the same when people say that keyboards and the mouse will soon be of the past....

And imagine an office with 20 people without keyboards talking to their computers to tell them what to write!

Anyway...i can't imagine otherwise. I don't like the removal of the start button that's clear however...

Cheers

Ehh.. so it's probably just the mobile Windows versions.

Worry OFF.

There's two things driving this controversy. Number one is the press. They are clueless about tech so they just copy paste any statement anyone says. Hell I spent weeks clarifying that yes, Windows7 compatability mod does indeed support directx accelleration after someone here read on Tom's Hardware that the only version that does was the 64 bit professional version--while I was playing MTW2 on a 32 bit home version in combatability mod that was accellerating the game 12 percent faster than windows XP.

This stuff is easy for me to spot. If I see an article on Power supplies at grogheads that doesn't contain the word occiliscope then I immediately know the guy writing it is actually clueless. (this is because ripple is the number one most important thing to know about a power supply and you absolutely need an occilliscope to measure ripple. It is the single indicator of how well it's built and engineered). If i bother to read the article all it will tell me is about name brands and power requirement. Which is also bad advice as their's plently of name brands that have crap on the shelf- ASUS is a good name for MBs ONLY in regards to their top costier ones--they do have a Korean plant that manufactures subbar cheap ones with their brand name on them as well and often just $10 dollars seperates the well built MB and the Korean crap. Telling readers to stick to name brand then leads to someone spoting a $59 deal with an ASUS motherboard...he remembers the article- buys the disaster waiting to happen- story over.

Microsoft is to blame for this with their certification programs. Having one doesn't make you a hardware expert. It just means you paid a few hundred dollars to sit in night classes for a few weeks. (and your be doing it again in a handful of years to renew them). They are not the same as the guy who spent 4 years in college as an electronic engineer that actually knows why and how the hardware works. I had 6 in my employ for the requirements and not a single class taught me anything other than how to pass the test.

The second reason is MS was late out of the box. They should have had their mobile version out there long ago-- and the one size fits all approach in Windows 8 isn't getting traction with idiot reporters nor will it fair well with idiot (tech wise) judges later.

The big blather seems to be about the metro GUI. Some things that I have read suggest that you are stuck with it when you start the box and other writings suggest that there is a Windows classic mode.

I haven't tried 8 because I don't have any blank DVDs, if you install it you cannot uninstall it, you have to recover your XP vista or 7 install.

The $40 upgrade has me in a quandry though. I had assumed that the price would be a lot higher.

Down the road when I build a new box, the parts may not be XP compatible. I had to make an installer disc for XP when I built this box with a SATA drive. That will require a full price version. Or free linux.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (27 JUL 2012 9:30pm)

Microsoft had to release Windows 8. win 7 is terrible on mobile devices. They need an operating system geared to the power managment requirements of these devices...be it a tablet or phone.

 

Their version of the app store--which is no different than apple's or Nolkia's or droid's- has absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Steam or desktop applications.Touchscreen can be for All-in -one PC's, yes..I view these as upright laptops with larger monitors---which is what they essentially are- but in general this is about the mobile market. What these companies are crying about is they are being locked out essentially the very same way they are locked out of iphones or droids. They want to sell their apps and run their crap client software piggyback on on MS and apple built without offering any cut to either.

 

Steam or the games they peddle have zero presense on iphones, tablets, droids, or whatever. Nor have they made any attempt to have one.

 

When I left Microsoft back in 2000 I got my alpha of windows XP as i always did of forthcoming Os's. Let me tell you. The media player blew the competition out of the water. The firewall was rock solid. Before it even went beta these bits were gutted to comply with all the court rulings from Zone alarm, rapsardy, realplayer...etc. The windows user had absolutely no reason to buy their inferior products if what was in the alpa went live. So the courts make Microsoft intentionally gut theirs--and we-the users get screwed again and are forced to go to overpriced third party software.

 

When apple does this nothing happens. I ask...what the hell gives? You can run itunes on windows but not media player on a mac? It is perfectly acceptable that a developer has to sell their application through apple's app store-and hence get access to the iphone's OS and gui elements, (I know because I use UNITY 3d and am well aware of what it takes to get anything published on an apple product as a delveloper.) and I have to go through UNION to do the same thing with a droid or any other moble device (20 percent cut) and all Microsoft is doing here is the same thing. That's it. That's all.

 

On the desktop/laptop Steam will work as usual and so will all games- and as usually Microsoft maintains the 3 OS rule so there is no compelling reason (especially if it's crap like Vista) to upgrade to Windows 8 nor will there be for 2 operating system releases after that. What the manufacturer chooses to use is up to them, and as usual that is market driven.

 

All this will do is open the moble market up so instead of paying $500 for a crap i-tablet your be able to get an ASUS tablet at $199 that will blow the apple's overpriced junk out of the water.

 

The fact the morons at Steam won't be able to screw with any of this is a huge plus in my view. The very last thing we need is for those clowns to enter the mobile market. Theur attempt to enter it through arguments on touch screen GUI's is weak, as Apple has had all-in-one's on the market for a very long time and they don't get access to that either.

 

Me I am completely perplexed why any sane person would want a touchscreen desktop to begin with. I'm constantly cleaning my monitor as it is, the last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the damn thing. But let's not forget there's plenty of Windows versions touchscreens out there for the desktop and wether it's driven by the OS (win

or an HP app is meaningless and certainly not a compelling reason to allow them to do on windows mobile device what they've never been able to do on an apple mobile device.

 

 

Well I guess MS gets treated differently because Windows runs 85 - 90 % of computers in the world -  essentially as far as OS goes micrsoft has a monopoly and is attempting to lock down that monopoly - whereas apple is just locking down its OS ...

That's why I dumped Pong for Nintendo in 1978.

So we have

Apple, closed system, cloud service, all devices synced

Win8, closed system, cloud service, I assume all devices will be synced

Linux, open system, ubuntu offers cloud service, no sync?

Android, ?, ?, ? (there is an x86 version in dev)

googleOS, ?, ?, ?

Unix?

I remember buying software back in the dinosaur days and checking the box (remember those?) for the "PC Compatible" label. I think that is why MS is where it is today. There was always lots of software on the shelf for PCs, not so much for Apple. Then MS copied the windows from Apple and sold it for low priced PC hardware. Combine low priced packaged computers with the availability of software and you have the winner in numbers.

Just because they sold more Trabants in East Germany than other cars doesn't make them wonderful.

Windows platforms will remain open as always. Having to go through their app store to sell a mobile app is not a big deal. Your computer still will be upgradable. This ability is why I use windows. Why would I pay three times more for a Mac that is not upgradable nor do I have a say so in the components that's inside? Forget the lack of software base- my boxes need the ability to quickly and easily upgrade with the video card I want and choose, the PSU I want and choose and so on.

Win 8 doesn't look like it's worth the bother to me. It's power managment will not be all that on a desktop-may help somewhat on laptops perhaps. For mobiles backthreading is the most important thing. A customer's battery can't go dead before your product is even downloaded. This needs to happen fast- and that's where cloud tech and backthreading come into play. I posted a conference vid a while back on this. Sometime in 2009 I recall.

Thank god there's windows. Imagine if there were only Macs. Nvidea would not exist. 12 of the 13 PSU manufactures would not exit. ASUS would not exist. Acer, Compaq or even HP. Hardware and software standardization is what Windows does. It's hardly a damn monopoly. It's in fact exactly the opposite.