I remember buying software back in the dinosaur days and checking the box (remember those?) for the "PC Compatible" label. I think that is why MS is where it is today. There was always lots of software on the shelf for PCs, not so much for Apple. Then MS copied the windows from Apple and sold it for low priced PC hardware. Combine low priced packaged computers with the availability of software and you have the winner in numbers.

Just because they sold more Trabants in East Germany than other cars doesn't make them wonderful.

Some more misinformation.Not Apple nor Microsoft invented Windows. Microware Systems coporation developed OS-9 in the 1980's- (yes even Apple had the balls to call it's Os OS-9). OS9 ran on the 6809 microprocessor- Tandy users should remember it. It  provided a single 64 KB address space in which all processes ran. (true multi-tasking). Windows on the other hand was not. You had to have IRQ interrupts as each process had to wait--it facked windows. An rather poorly on Win 3.1. After Apple ripped off the multitaking of OS-9 then Windows ripped it off them or Microware--the evidence isn't really clear- but Microware deserves the credit- Not steve Jobs Nor Bill gates. 

I programmed a golf game on OS-9. It was great stuff and this was years before any Mac Or PC.

I've been trying to understand the various implications of Win8 for a bit now, as I'm eyeballing their Surface and also upgrading my desktop gaming rig. Here's what I think I understand:

There will be two versions of Win8. Win8 and Win8 RT (there are undoubtedly more accurate names for these). Win8 RT  is designed to run on ARM-based processors, which are likely to be found mostly in tablets and other mobile devices. There will be little to no backwards compability for Win8 RT apps. It is applications for Win8 RT that will only be available at the msft store. MSFT is planning on releasing both RT and Win8 versions of the Surface.

Win8 RT is designed to be run on current Intel and AMD chips, and will be backwards compatibile with most applications designed to run on them. I believe the 64bit v 32bit confusion is largely msft covering their asses and talking mostly about 64bit backwards compatibility. It's good to hear others' experience that it is 32bit compatible, too.

BOTH versions of Win8 will be designed to work with multi-touch touchscreens, and so the interface is much more toward what you would experience on your mobile phone, ipad, or other tablet. A lot of pressing icons / widgets, a lot of swiping with your finger.

The "Windows Classic Mode" that someone mentions above is basically just an interface. My guess is it's primarily there for those of us still using a mouse and keyboard as their primary means of navigation, and it's certainly included for the many corporate IT managers who are not going to upgrade their monitors to touchscreen across the enterprise simply because of Win8. However, it probably will happen over time.

I believe the msft wysisyg interface standard that we now call "windows" was "stolen" from Apple in much the same way Apple "stole" it from Xerox/PARC. Which is a bit like saying Ford develops a sleek looking car that looks a lot like Chevy's sleek looking car.

There's little question that Apple and MSFT are where they are now because of some core design decision -- "open" compatibility and inhouse control of hardware and software. I'm no Apple fan, but it's interesting that MSFT is the one moving toward Apple's philosophy with the Surface.

For people who were wondering what I was talking about. On the left of this picture of the metro interface you have the properly

programmed and presented metro tiles. On the right what standard application installations get. I imagine Steam would have an icon from the right hand side. The right hand icons would have no live updates, advertisement or animation. they are simply flat icons.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/blizzard-agrees-with-valve-windows-8-is-bad-for-video-games/

Here is a picture of the win8 desktop. Notice their is no start button on the lower right... instead when you mouse over this all you get is a shortcut to the metro icon interface shown above.

Meh.

Too Touch Screen oriented for my tastes.  

I take it that second screenshot is of the "Classic" mode??

Originally Posted By destraex (28 JUL 2012 7:47pm)

For people who were wondering what I was talking about. On the left of this picture of the metro interface you have the properly

 

programmed and presented metro tiles. On the right what standard application installations get. I imagine Steam would have an icon from the right hand side. The right hand icons would have no live updates, advertisement or animation. they are simply flat icons.

 

 

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/blizzard-agrees-with-valve-windows-8-is-bad-for-video-games/

 

 

Here is a picture of the win8 desktop. Notice their is no start button on the lower right... instead when you mouse over this all you get is a shortcut to the metro icon interface shown above.

 

The reason for this is that only Metro apps have those nice tiles that auto-update.  Any normal desktop app will have the normal small icon in metro mode.  However any developer can simply make the icon "metro look" for their desktop app I am sure with the latest Win8 development kits you can have a snappier metro tile when in Metro mode so steam and other apps will need to update their software.  I am not sure what all the hoopla is about to be honest I mean you can still install any app or game from any source it does not have to be the MS App store.  MS is simply copying apple and having an an app store for easy purchases and installations.  You are not forced to you use it.  Apple does the same with MAC OS X why isn't everybody screaming about them?  Also Apple does this with iPhone and everybody get's over microsoft's case with monopoly and so forth and Apple is the biggest monopoly ever.  Heck for iphone you can't replace Safari browser with some thing else and make it default or replace the stock email app and make it default Apple does not allow this in their OS why isn't anybody screaming about this??  I for one look forward to Windows 8 and the Microsoft App store.  If I can buy my apps from there and re-download them whenever I want without silly intrsuive DRM like Apple Mac OS X does with their App store I am all for that.  Issue with Steam is they are pissed because now that Microsoft includes an App store in the OS they are afraid your "normal" users will only use the app store and never use or care about steam so it will be lost revenue for them.  Similar to how so many users use IE when a better browser like Chrome is out they simply use it because it's there already and they are not power users like folks on this forum.  They simply will use the MS Store for majority if not all their game purchases and this is a direct threat to other app stores like Steam is so they are bashing Windows 8 with BS comments because of that.

That is one ugly interface. I wonder how much ram all that metro crap eats up. heck simple desktop shortcuts eat it-I can imagine those will eat 5 to 10 times as much each. I'd imagine game performance is not on a par with Win7 because of it. All we need a dozens more processes running.

Me i am a less is more kind of guy with this.

The disappearance of the start button-which is on the bottom left of my Win 7- is a special kind of stupid. People hate learning new GUI's-especially OS GUI's. There was a time MS listened to beta testers. Course there was a time when you called a guy on a camel didn't answer the phone you can't undertand either. Glad I left.

People using the BETA actually re-enabled the start button and so microsoft stripped the code entirely. 

So now the start button will require a whole new kind of app to put back in.

MS really want users to learn the new interface. They know if they do not pull this stunt nobody will adopt it properly.

I agree its a special kind of stupid. 

Another thing that bothers me is that apps want to take the whole screen up. This means that "windows" as such is becoming "curtains".

In fact I think thats my new term for it. The interface hides everything including the desktop at every opportunity.

Most applications will open by default in metro mode if they have it. This annoys the hell out of me because it means full screen mode with dumbed down massive looking hidden icons. Computer interfaces should not make things hard, this one does because it wants to be touch, and touch screens need real estate. 

After the app does this everything leads to the metro interface. So half your time is spent flicking back to the desktop.

Everything must be dug for where in win vista and  7 I was used to just typing in the search bar after pressing start.

Now I have to move the mouse to the right to get a bar menu, press search and then I have to choose one of three searches none of which seems to execute a lot of commands I am used to.. for example \\ for network drives. Going back and forth to search in three different patterns instead of the whole damned lot is just silly. It worked before why break it?

For that I go to network manually or an explorer or ie bar in the original classic esktop menus.

Even powering off involves more clicks than it used to because of the extra interface. 

Its a mess all right. But its not impossible to use. Just annoying.

As for the touch features, microsoft may well be on a winner here. It presents well and looks and feels slick enough.

Win8 is aimed with its large minimalistic interface fairly and squarely at touch. So what do notebook and desktop users do in the mean time?

I am hoping and praying they have a seperate corporate version that has none of this. There was a rumour their would be an enterprise version with no metro interface for win8.

Hi,

 Perhaps I am dense, and havent followed the Windows 8 development all that closely, but why exactly am I supposed to adopt this new OS when Windows 7 seems to work just fine? Aside from a tiled interface, what does it bring to the party that Windows 7 doesnt already provide? Also, am I supposed to purchase a new monitor to run it or does my existing flat screen LCD monitor fit the bill?

  I simply dont understand why I need to now touch and clean my screen to manipulate programs when a keyboard and mouse are sufficient. Are they reinventing the wheel purely as a revenue gimmick or is this thing really necessary to operate a home office and gaming station?

Lightning

Originally Posted By Lightning (29 JUL 2012 5:45am)

why exactly am I supposed to adopt this new OS when Windows 7 seems to work just fine?

Simply put, Windows 8 is intended for touchscreen tablets. That's the market Microsoft is trying to get in to with this release. Along the way, I'm sure they figured they could make more money by pushing Windows 8 onto the desktop community as well.

Originally Posted By sabre31 (28 JUL 2012 10:24pm)

 If I can buy my apps from there and re-download them whenever I want without silly intrsuive DRM like Apple Mac OS X does with their App store I am all for that.

You're silly. The MS store, I'm sure, will have more DRM than Apple's.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (28 JUL 2012 11:13pm)

That is one ugly interface. I wonder how much ram all that metro crap eats up. heck simple desktop shortcuts eat it-I can imagine those will eat 5 to 10 times as much each. I'd imagine game performance is not on a par with Win7 because of it. All we need a dozens more processes running.

 

Me i am a less is more kind of guy with this.

 

Agreed.

I don't see myself getting Win8.  No 'Start' menu.. annoying touchscreen interface that'll be a resource hog.  F that.

let's not forget UAC. The most annoying thing about Vista. And dispite all the moans little changed in Windows 7. When I run a program, or try to install something- that damn window "are you sure?" pops up. "Yes I'm sure. I clicked it didn't I?! And I logged in as admin as well so what the hell is with the interogation?"

Things get Symantec worse if it's a mod and the intended game is sitting in program files. Now instead of annoying you with needless popups Windows won't copy the files needed and it tells you absolutely nothing regarding it.

We now have to be careful where we put our games- but for the millions of casual computer users to this day that behavior beats them over the head and the poor mod developer has to continually explain how to install his mod.

I sure miss the Dos days- even with the boot disk dance. Simple. I didn't have to dig and explore to get to something.

The touch screens in Startrek weren't like this! And those clowns were idiots. Every week being tossed all over the bridge because in the year 3000 A.D. no one know what a seatbelt is.

I saw on a BBC short that there will be an option to use the old desktop style. I'm hoping so.

And a new sig is born.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (28 JUL 2012 12:04pm)

Windows platforms will remain open as always. Having to go through their app store to sell a mobile app is not a big deal. Your computer still will be upgradable. This ability is why I use windows. Why would I pay three times more for a Mac that is not upgradable nor do I have a say so in the components that's inside? Forget the lack of software base- my boxes need the ability to quickly and easily upgrade with the video card I want and choose, the PSU I want and choose and so on.

 

Win 8 doesn't look like it's worth the bother to me. It's power managment will not be all that on a desktop-may help somewhat on laptops perhaps. For mobiles backthreading is the most important thing. A customer's battery can't go dead before your product is even downloaded. This needs to happen fast- and that's where cloud tech and backthreading come into play. I posted a conference vid a while back on this. Sometime in 2009 I recall.

 

Thank god there's windows. Imagine if there were only Macs. Nvidea would not exist. 12 of the 13 PSU manufactures would not exit. ASUS would not exist. Acer, Compaq or even HP. Hardware and software standardization is what Windows does. It's hardly a damn monopoly. It's in fact exactly the opposite.

Well its a monopoly of OS - which is what I said - I hardly see what that has to do with hardware manufacturers. I cant recall a time when microsoft appeared at all interested in making the hardware their software ran on so I kind of fail to see your point really at least with the example you gave. They are a software company not a hardware company. I think you are entirely missing a distinction here - yes the microsoft os is open, but its only as open as they want to make it (and as restrictive as they are allowed to make it) - most of the furore appears to be around the fact they are closing some bits off and heading in the apple direction cause they have seen that it works and makes more money. As I say - the point is the trouble microsft has run into is mostly when it has attempted to force people to use particualr pieces of software in their OS such as with IE. If this lock down just relates to mobile devices then I can hardly see I am going to be bothered. However thats not where they make their money - it may be where they hope to make thier money but its not now. As I said before - if steam have nothing to worry about then whats the point of his bitching - the orignal post was around what has he seen that hes getting so worked up about - I presume its something and he isnt just giving his pacemaker a workout as I cant see an ulterior motive for him to blow hard about a non issue. I cant see what steam gains by crying wolf.

Originally Posted By JaguarUSF (29 JUL 2012 6:01am)

Originally Posted By Lightning (29 JUL 2012 5:45am)

why exactly am I supposed to adopt this new OS when Windows 7 seems to work just fine?

 

Simply put, Windows 8 is intended for touchscreen tablets. That's the market Microsoft is trying to get in to with this release. Along the way, I'm sure they figured they could make more money by pushing Windows 8 onto the desktop community as well.

 

Originally Posted By sabre31 (28 JUL 2012 10:24pm)

 If I can buy my apps from there and re-download them whenever I want without silly intrsuive DRM like Apple Mac OS X does with their App store I am all for that.

 

You're silly. The MS store, I'm sure, will have more DRM than Apple's.

 

 

 

Don't be silly you know it will not. The app store will be exactly like it is with Windows Phone 7 Market.  It will be one and the same store and all purchases will be tied to your Microsoft Live ID so simply using that ID will allow you to re-download those apps  just like Apple Mac Store is.  They can't afford not to copy Mac and they are doing exactly that as they finally realize that Apple and their app stores is what is killing them because apple has the developer support and now a days it's all about the ecosystems.  If you have a rich ecosystem then users will flock to it.  Just like Mac App store if developers don't abide by the stores rules such as allowing multiple installs on personal owned machines they can't sell there and will simply sell their apps like they do now outside the microsoft store.   

Originally Posted By DBeves (29 JUL 2012 12:14pm)

Originally Posted By ghostryder (28 JUL 2012 12:04pm)

Windows platforms will remain open as always. Having to go through their app store to sell a mobile app is not a big deal. Your computer still will be upgradable. This ability is why I use windows. Why would I pay three times more for a Mac that is not upgradable nor do I have a say so in the components that's inside? Forget the lack of software base- my boxes need the ability to quickly and easily upgrade with the video card I want and choose, the PSU I want and choose and so on.

 

Win 8 doesn't look like it's worth the bother to me. It's power managment will not be all that on a desktop-may help somewhat on laptops perhaps. For mobiles backthreading is the most important thing. A customer's battery can't go dead before your product is even downloaded. This needs to happen fast- and that's where cloud tech and backthreading come into play. I posted a conference vid a while back on this. Sometime in 2009 I recall.

 

Thank god there's windows. Imagine if there were only Macs. Nvidea would not exist. 12 of the 13 PSU manufactures would not exit. ASUS would not exist. Acer, Compaq or even HP. Hardware and software standardization is what Windows does. It's hardly a damn monopoly. It's in fact exactly the opposite.

 

 

 

Well its a monopoly of OS - which is what I said - I hardly see what that has to do with hardware manufacturers. I cant recall a time when microsoft appeared at all interested in making the hardware their software ran on so I kind of fail to see your point really at least with the example you gave. They are a software company not a hardware company. I think you are entirely missing a distinction here - yes the microsoft os is open, but its only as open as they want to make it (and as restrictive as they are allowed to make it) - most of the furore appears to be around the fact they are closing some bits off and heading in the apple direction cause they have seen that it works and makes more money. As I say - the point is the trouble microsft has run into is mostly when it has attempted to force people to use particualr pieces of software in their OS such as with IE. If this lock down just relates to mobile devices then I can hardly see I am going to be bothered. However thats not where they make their money - it may be where they hope to make thier money but its not now. As I said before - if steam have nothing to worry about then whats the point of his bitching - the orignal post was around what has he seen that hes getting so worked up about - I presume its something and he isnt just giving his pacemaker a workout as I cant see an ulterior motive for him to blow hard about a non issue. I cant see what steam gains by crying wolf.

Microsoft finally woke up and realizes that to compete with Apple they need to become both a hardware and software vendor.  They cannot rely on the old way of doing things.   Times are a changing and this is something folks don't realize.   Microsoft needs to build software to their hardware so it is opimized well like Apple does simply put.  The Microsoft Surface is their hardware platform for PCs and Nokia which they will buy soon I am sure will be their phone hardware vendor for Windows Phones.

Well its a monopoly of OS - which is what I said - I hardly see what that has to do with hardware manufacturers. I cant recall a time when microsoft appeared at all interested in making the hardware their software ran on so I kind of fail to see your point really at least with the example you gave. They are a software company not a hardware company. I think you are entirely missing a distinction here - yes the microsoft os is open, but its only as open as they want to make it (and as restrictive as they are allowed to make it) -

By open I mean as a windows user you have a choice to what hardware you run it on. Want A Nvidea card no problem. Want an ATI card no problem. Want a corsair Power supply no problem. because Windows allows and supports all the different hardware from all the different manufacturers the competition assures good pricing and selection. How I build a computer and at how much and what focus it has is entirely up to me.

If however you own a Mac...or say Microsoft doesn't exist and all there is Apple. Well say good-bye to 90 percent of the manufactures as Macs are prioritory. Only ATI for example- right down to what model. As much as people believe Windows is a monopoly it is quite the opposite. They do not dictate to computer manufacturers what components to include in their computers, nor do they just barter with one--the lowest bidder in Korea as Apple does. You have no say whatsoever on what goes into a Apple product. And you pay 3 times more than the equal in the windows world.

Here MS is opening an app store as all the other droid and apple products and like so requiring a take if you uyse the sdk and develope an app and sell it through them.

What's screwy is all this is ALSO on the desktop- even though mobile apps run on a different chip- which means a bunch of windows newbies are going to be buying a lot of apps that don't run on a desktop---and they may not even own a mobile device to use what they just purchased. And as mentioned touchscreens on desktops make little sense to most of us. So why make it an Obama healthcare one size fits all type of fiasco? In the former I'm not pregnant nor will ever be, I won't need a pap smear and I'm not bringing 5 kids to the doctor every month. Yet i have to swallow the whole package and pay the cost. For the latter I don't own a mobile device-don't plan to- and I have no use for a MS app store or a MS OS with touch buttons. In fact I'd rather see the old windows 98 GUI that actually made some sense and was easy to navigate.

If I drive a ford and am accident free shouldn't I have a cheaper rate than the guy in the sportscar with 3 accidents? I rarely go to the doctor. Haven't seen one in over a decade. Shouldn't my insurance rate be lower to a hyercondriac that goes 3 times a week? If All I'm doing is posting on a forum and playing some games shouldn't their be an OS that just does that? Well Obama and bill Gates say no.

And i say the two are morons.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (29 JUL 2012 2:27pm)

Well its a monopoly of OS - which is what I said - I hardly see what that has to do with hardware manufacturers. I cant recall a time when microsoft appeared at all interested in making the hardware their software ran on so I kind of fail to see your point really at least with the example you gave. They are a software company not a hardware company. I think you are entirely missing a distinction here - yes the microsoft os is open, but its only as open as they want to make it (and as restrictive as they are allowed to make it) -

By open I mean as a windows user you have a choice to what hardware you run it on. Want A Nvidea card no problem. Want an ATI card no problem. Want a corsair Power supply no problem. because Windows allows and supports all the different hardware from all the different manufacturers the competition assures good pricing and selection. How I build a computer and at how much and what focus it has is entirely up to me.

If however you own a Mac...or say Microsoft doesn't exist and all there is Apple. Well say good-bye to 90 percent of the manufactures as Macs are prioritory. Only ATI for example- right down to what model. As much as people believe Windows is a monopoly it is quite the opposite. They do not dictate to computer manufacturers what components to include in their computers, nor do they just barter with one--the lowest bidder in Korea as Apple does. You have no say whatsoever on what goes into a Apple product. And you pay 3 times more than the equal in the windows world.

Here MS is opening an app store as all the other droid and apple products and like so requiring a take if you uyse the sdk and develope an app and sell it through them.

 

What's screwy is all this is ALSO on the desktop- even though mobile apps run on a different chip- which means a bunch of windows newbies are going to be buying a lot of apps that don't run on a desktop---and they may not even own a mobile device to use what they just purchased. And as mentioned touchscreens on desktops make little sense to most of us. So why make it an Obama healthcare one size fits all type of fiasco? In the former I'm not pregnant nor will ever be, I won't need a pap smear and I'm not bringing 5 kids to the doctor every month. Yet i have to swallow the whole package and pay the cost. For the latter I don't own a mobile device-don't plan to- and I have no use for a MS app store or a MS OS with touch buttons. In fact I'd rather see the old windows 98 GUI that actually made some sense and was easy to navigate.

If I drive a ford and am accident free shouldn't I have a cheaper rate than the guy in the sportscar with 3 accidents? I rarely go to the doctor. Haven't seen one in over a decade. Shouldn't my insurance rate be lower to a hyercondriac that goes 3 times a week? If All I'm doing is posting on a forum and playing some games shouldn't their be an OS that just does that? Well Obama and bill Gates say no.

 

And i say the two are morons.

Yes - well I understand that but I think its not comparing like with like. Apple build hardware - and they built an os to go with their hardware. MS - build software - never built hardware. So MS have a monopoly in world OS. Apple have a monopoly in Apple products - its hardly the same thing. If microsoft had stated building hardware first and put in their OS on that hardware then I fully suspect the world would be run by a completely  different OS on just as many varied bits of hardware. Microsoft got their OS monopoly position presicely because they didnt do what apple did. The point with windows is they have to refresh it every few years otherwise they stop making money. Most of what they do with their products appears entirely cosmetic - to most of us. Server 2012 to most admins does exactly the same - they just put all the same things in different places to make it look different. Personally I believe windows 8 is an attempt to corner a different market. After all half the world still runs XP 6 months or so before it falls out of support. If its taken that long to get adopters for 7 I think Microsoft have realized they need to make money in different ways cause it aint coming via OS upgrades. I personally believe you will see a move from MS to team up with hardware suppliers to produce specifically MS branded products and attempt to move in on apples market cause they know most people will move to 7 even if 8 is around cause its gone through its public beta phase and has all the necessary drivers etc.

Originally Posted By IanC (29 JUL 2012 9:09am)

I saw on a BBC short that there will be an option to use the old desktop style. I'm hoping so.

 

I think the old desktop style is the one I posted above, which is still missing the start button.

Originally Posted By DBeves (29 JUL 2012 12:14pm)

Originally Posted By ghostryder (28 JUL 2012 12:04pm)

Windows platforms will remain open as always. Having to go through their app store to sell a mobile app is not a big deal. Your computer still will be upgradable. This ability is why I use windows. Why would I pay three times more for a Mac that is not upgradable nor do I have a say so in the components that's inside? Forget the lack of software base- my boxes need the ability to quickly and easily upgrade with the video card I want and choose, the PSU I want and choose and so on.

 

Win 8 doesn't look like it's worth the bother to me. It's power managment will not be all that on a desktop-may help somewhat on laptops perhaps. For mobiles backthreading is the most important thing. A customer's battery can't go dead before your product is even downloaded. This needs to happen fast- and that's where cloud tech and backthreading come into play. I posted a conference vid a while back on this. Sometime in 2009 I recall.

 

Thank god there's windows. Imagine if there were only Macs. Nvidea would not exist. 12 of the 13 PSU manufactures would not exit. ASUS would not exist. Acer, Compaq or even HP. Hardware and software standardization is what Windows does. It's hardly a damn monopoly. It's in fact exactly the opposite.

 

Well its a monopoly of OS - which is what I said - I hardly see what that has to do with hardware manufacturers. I cant recall a time when microsoft appeared at all interested in making the hardware their software ran on so I kind of fail to see your point really at least with the example you gave. They are a software company not a hardware company. I think you are entirely missing a distinction here - yes the microsoft os is open, but its only as open as they want to make it (and as restrictive as they are allowed to make it) - most of the furore appears to be around the fact they are closing some bits off and heading in the apple direction cause they have seen that it works and makes more money. As I say - the point is the trouble microsft has run into is mostly when it has attempted to force people to use particualr pieces of software in their OS such as with IE. If this lock down just relates to mobile devices then I can hardly see I am going to be bothered. However thats not where they make their money - it may be where they hope to make thier money but its not now. As I said before - if steam have nothing to worry about then whats the point of his bitching - the orignal post was around what has he seen that hes getting so worked up about - I presume its something and he isnt just giving his pacemaker a workout as I cant see an ulterior motive for him to blow hard about a non issue. I cant see what steam gains by crying wolf.

Microsoft ARE releasing their own hardware for windows8 directly. Which has annoyed the traditional hardware manufacturers.

It appears microsoft do not trust manufacturers to release decent machines... remind you of apple?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jun12/06-18announce.aspx

Originally Posted By ghostryder (29 JUL 2012 2:27pm)

If I drive a ford and am accident free shouldn't I have a cheaper rate than the guy in the sportscar with 3 accidents? I rarely go to the doctor. Haven't seen one in over a decade. Shouldn't my insurance rate be lower to a hyercondriac that goes 3 times a week? If All I'm doing is posting on a forum and playing some games shouldn't their be an OS that just does that? Well Obama and bill Gates say no.

 

And i say the two are morons.

Your comparison of Obama and Gates doesn't make any sense. Obama runs a country, Gates runs a large business. Microsoft can make any OS they please. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

ObamaCare is much different. The motto for that is: "If you don't like it, too bad, you still have to buy it or pay a hefty fine."

I keep my desktop clean.

I have minimal icons on my desktop.

Some icons are placed in Folders and the folders kept on my desktop.

I could not stand a crowded desktop.

.

.

Originally Posted By ghostryder (28 JUL 2012 12:33pm)

I remember buying software back in the dinosaur days and checking the box (remember those?) for the "PC Compatible" label. I think that is why MS is where it is today. There was always lots of software on the shelf for PCs, not so much for Apple. Then MS copied the windows from Apple and sold it for low priced PC hardware. Combine low priced packaged computers with the availability of software and you have the winner in numbers.

 

Just because they sold more Trabants in East Germany than other cars doesn't make them wonderful.

Some more misinformation.Not Apple nor Microsoft invented Windows. Microware Systems coporation developed OS-9 in the 1980's- (yes even Apple had the balls to call it's Os OS-9). OS9 ran on the 6809 microprocessor- Tandy users should remember it. It  provided a single 64 KB address space in which all processes ran. (true multi-tasking). Windows on the other hand was not. You had to have IRQ interrupts as each process had to wait--it facked windows. An rather poorly on Win 3.1. After Apple ripped off the multitaking of OS-9 then Windows ripped it off them or Microware--the evidence isn't really clear- but Microware deserves the credit- Not steve Jobs Nor Bill gates. 

 

I programmed a golf game on OS-9. It was great stuff and this was years before any Mac Or PC.

Ghostryder,

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but Xerox created the first GUI...ie, Windows.

Ghostryder,

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but Xerox created the first GUI...ie, Windows.

Microsoft Windows is NOT a GUI. It's a mulitasking Operating system. Programs can exist in different windows and run at the same time-with the only limited factor being available ram. You have to have a windowed interface-but that's more like saying you need a wheel for a car. If two programs run at the same time that's the only wasy to set up a user interface (GUI)

A GUI is just that-and it doesn't take an OS to create one. You can create GUI's in simple LUA script that can look like either a mac gui or a windows gui--it does not mean programs in them multitask however. All the hoopla over who stoled what was written by tech ignorants that see two simuliar interfaces and 'assume' behind the interface everything is the same. It's good Drama but factually it's BS.

In the old dos days there was no such thing as multi-tasking. you has IRQ's (interrupts) and everything in the machine had to take turns for access. Programs, mice, sound, or whatever. Some 17 visable ones that a user could configure and many more hidden within the os code and controller chips.

Windows 3.1, 95 and 98 facked multitaking. you could have two programs in two seperate windows but they 'waited' in the IRQ lineup. However if you were programming on OS-9 on the tandy color computer you had the first true multi-tasking available. What GUI operated it was irrellevant. The address was just 64k-but in those days that was huge- and some of the best and most powerful software and games were created with it. And that credit goes again to microware Systems.

Apple actually years later not only ripped that off but used the name as well. And by the time windows 98 came around (a system still piggybacking on Dos and IRQ interrupts BTW which technically proves MS did not steal apple tech) the tandy was history, 386's were being sold heavily while the Mac mostly catered to Engineers, Arcitechs and the like because it was mult-tasking and doing graphic computations faster.

Windows really didn't see true multi-tasking until it got off Dos and the 9x kernel- Windows XP. (although this already was on Windows NT for some time so it did not first appear on personal OS's).

Apple and Windows have simular GUI's- but that has nothing ro do with the tech in the OS's. In fact Windows 7 copies the Linux Ubuntu GUI's moreso than Apple's and UAC is a very poor copy of linux's security tech.

I followed all this closely having seen 3 versions of Windows 95 (a.b.and c), Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, Mellineum, and i left during beta of Windows XP. And none prior to Xp was mult-tasking. The IRQ's were there and clearly visable in device manager via the control panel and could be configured as they were in DOS.

had microsoft actually stole anything from Apple that would have disappeared by the time 98 released at the latest. And if OS-9 didn't exist there would be no Apple.

And BTW Microsoft releases hardware as apple does-be it the 360, the sidewinder Joystick or whatnot. Apple does it's version of MP3 players, droids and tablets- but the computers are built by third parties that are contracted. In this sense there is little difference in the two companies-so trying to label Microsoft as just an OS company isn't accurrate- anymore than trying to claim Apple is a manfacturer of hardware. Apple contracts out. Nothing whatsoever is built at an Apple plant---there's no such thing.