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Posts : 1217 Joined: 25 AUG 2004 Location: US, Oregon
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Re the review above: right out of the gate the guy calls it Panzer Corps rhyming with torps & not Panzer Core. He also talks about terrain the unit sits on top of & the objectives are settlements. A bit clueless but carry on...
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana
I loved Panzer General, and I am sure that I would love this one.
I have purchased many Matrix games in the past, and will almost certainly do so in the future.
But....what parts of this game are mandatory, and what is optional?
I have never seen a game with so many DLC's, costing so much money.
This is probably an excellent game, but $145 for the set, and new products launched at a rate of about every two months would totally suck up my gaming budget.
There are a lot of reviews out there on the original Panzer Corps. I did one on ArmChairGeneral. The reviews from wargaming are pretty consistent.
I also did a review of one of the expansions which is on the wargamer site. It discusses one specific expansion in detail and the value of the expansions in general (I've played '39 to '44 East). There is also user generated content out there since the original game shipped with an editor. If you played Panzer General or Panzer General 2 and liked them - you will probably greatly enjoy PanzerCorps. The first release and AfrikaKorps are each $20 - so the initial investment is not very big.
I wanted to reply on the AK manual issue. We had hoped to get an updated manual done for Afrika but we ran out of time. We didnt feel the changes were large or crucial enough that it was a priority, just somethigni that would have been nice to do if we had time. Saying that the release date was arbitrary is not true at all. A huge amiount of planning and coordination has to go in to a release. Marketing plans have to be put in place weeks and months in advance. For small releases you can move the dates without issue but for large releases like this you have to keep to your dates as close as possible.
A manual was never discussed externally and we didnt know there was an expectation there would be one. The vast majority of our games come without a printed manual. E.g. Battle Academy and expansions, Field of Glory and expansions all have no printed manual.
Only collectors editions come with printed manuals. So that means War in the East, Panzer Corps and Decisive Campaigsn Case Blue.
We do have some legacy games where we manufactured stick in bulk where there are manmuals in the box but as stock runs out we move them to the digital on demand editions without manuals.
This is why for us there was no expectation of there being an manual in there. We will try and make it clearer in future if a game is coming with a printed manual or not.
We looked at the opportunity to do an updated print manual for Afrika and decided the best plan was to do a a joint PzC and AK manual. However we still have large numbers of Panzer Corps manuals in stock and decided that we needed to use those up before we did a reprint. This will likely be later this year and the new manual would be used for both games. The cost of the printed manuals is pretty high though and we're looking at putting up the price of our collectors editions to $15 instead of the $10 we currently charge as the $10 doest cover the cost of the manual, shipping it to warehoses and print on demand boxes and CD's.
Having said all that I can see from the arguments above that people were expecting one and while I dont think we misled anyone I can see how there could be confusion. Obviously we cant fix a phyiscal printed manual now but what we can look at doing is an updated digital manual with all the latest info in. Would this be of interest.
I am just back after 2 weeks off and have not even had time to download e-mail yet. I'll talk to the team and see what can be done.
I just wanted everyone to understand why it was the way it is and it was.
Would people be ok with the physical version of AK being $35 if it came with a printed manual? We think $15 this is the price we need to charge for collectors editions going forwards to make it all add up.
We've got History under our skin
I already purchased the physical game as you likely know by reading the posts in this thread. That being said, here is my understanding of what I think you propose:
1. $35 for AK physical (box, cd/dvd, Panzer Corp w/AK updated manual when available), plus S/H.....Sounds okay to me.
2. Currently for those who purchased AK physical a chance to download a free updated Panzer Corp w/AK manual when available. Okay by me.
3. Chance to just purchase an updated physical manual when available for $15, (plus S/H ?). Please clarify but seems okay to me either way.
Actually, I wouldn't mind just getting a free download of an AK addendum without Panzer Corp part OR maybe a physical copy (either grayscale or color) of the addendum for a nominal fee to cover S/H and printing costs. I wouldn't mind the chance to just slip a physical copy into my AK case.
Posts : 285 Joined: 28 SEP 2011 Location: US, New Jersey
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Originally Posted By Lord Zimoa (15 AUG 2012 5:13pm)
We have already announced Panzer Corps expansions from the Allied side, we will cover both the Western as the Soviet Allies.
First however, on the planning are 3 more Axis Western Grand Campaign DLC`s: `43 West, `44 West and `45 West.
And of course the Mac and iPad porting of the Panzer corps series.
Pacific expansions are undecided yet.
So how will the western DLC's work in regards to your core units as they have been beefed up during the eastern DLC's and now we are going chronologically backwards to 1943? Also will these be incorporated as "branching" campaigns whereby if we begin in 1939, we might be able to move between the west and east dlc's in some type of orderly timeline?
Just a guess, but I think that as the German commander, you will likely start with a core force in either Tunisia (now that they have the terrain created for Afrika Korps) or Sicily. Sicily will likely involve conducting a fighting withdrawal against both Allied invasion forces before being withdrawn to mainland Italy. Here again, the German commander will likely conduct successive defensive battles against both the American and Commonwealth forces through the end of 1943. 1944 will likely pick up in Italy then migrate to France for the D-Day invasion and '45 will likely see the capitualtion of German forces in Germany, Austria and Italy. I cant see how they would otherwise handle the situation from a design standpoint, but I could be wrong. Of course, there could be some hypothetical scenarios, such as the liberation of Norway (Fortitude North?), D-Day invasion in 1943, actions in Greece, Sardinia, Crete and Corsica, and the ability to land in other operational zones across France other than Normandy. Could be interesting...
Both Allied Commander (if thats what they call it) and Pacific Commander (again if thats what they go with) would be a lot more fun since they would involve more offensive operations instead of fighting a continual defensive withdrawal through til the end of the war.
On the manual we would probably add the new manual to the boxed edition of AK and give a free download to anyone who wants it. We probably would not sell teh manual on its own as I doubt there woudl be much demand and it would be a lot of work to set up.
We've got History under our skin
It is interesting to see this feedback. It would be interesting to see why he's struggling but hard to do without watching him play. The easy level is really easy and the next level up is still pretty easy. We've got people playing through on max difficulty on the forums. These guys are obviously the hardcore but its definitely possible. I have seen some others comment that the steps between some of the difficulty levels are a bit steep but we also get people say the hardest levels are still not hard enough so if anyone has ideas on what could be done to improve the difficulty levels please let us know. The only thing I can think of is to have more or to have them configurable in some way with slider bars.
We've got History under our skin
Frankly, I think its a great game, although I did have trouble with the Persian scenario.
I would suggest two additions going forward. The first would be a reviewable record that shows each scenario played and the accompanying victory achieved, which could include the number of units lost, killed, turn victory was achieved, etc. Second, I would suggest that the player we awarded a set number of "reward points" after winning a scenario. These reward points could then be used, on occassion, to augment the prestige points the player has in their account. So, if the player runs into a particularly tough scenario, they could use these points to help beef up their OOB.
There is a real problem with "difficulty creep" in many wargames. It is part & parcel of the playtesting process. In general, the people who are very hard core wanting lots of difficulty choose to be unpaid playtesters. The playtesters study the game intensively looking for every slight edge. Additional iterations of the game (as we see in Afrika Korps) tend to attract the hard core playtester wanting more challenge.
This gives the designers bad feedback if the game is an entry level wargame of the beer & pretzels variety. Thus what we see with Afrika Korps. The playtester group for a beer & pretzels game should include complete gaming novices as well as those who are not novices but did not play the original game.
The author of the grogheads review played the game extensively and has written reviews for both the original PanzerCorps and the first four expansions. To discount the review as an inexperienced player is probably not warranted.
Another reason for the poor review was the lack of documentation in the features. This was an easily avoidable mistake.
The major problems indicated by the review could be corrected in an update. The game platform itself and several game innovations were highly praised.