I saw in another thread that someone had brought this question up. I often prefer to play the Axis in WW2 wargames, mostly because it brings more of a challenge. An opportunity to change history.

So....

Does that make me anti-Semitic? Am I anti-Semitic if I prefer to play the Axis in wargames?

I don't like to wear short little mustaches, I don't salute anyone with a "Heil", and I don't have a flag with a swastika on it duct taped to the tailgate of my lifted truck.

But I sure do enjoy pushing panzer columns through the Low Countries!

Most gamers prefer to play on the historical losing side just to see if they can do better...that's all it means to me as I will play the Whites in RuS and the Central Powers in World War I...that does not mean that I'm an anti Bolshevik one day, and a Monarchist the next....

Some of the Axis wargear is much more interesting from a technical standpoint. That might be one of the reasons I like playing Axis. It has nothing to do with political or racial views.

I prefer playing as the Axis during WW2 period games, but I wouldnt consider myself anti-semitic since I love stomping the crap out of the Arabs during Arab-Israeli war(s) period games.

Um, in a word:  No

In two words:  Absolutely Not

"anti-Semitism" is a charge that gets thrown around way too casually, and that unfortunately dilutes its impact -- it's a serious charge that should be leveled carefully and seriously.  Playing a computer game in which you manipulate symbols representing panzer divisions does not -- NOT -- make you anti-Semitic. 

I am obsessed with WW2 strategy games (good ones, anyway).  I particularly love that it's often possible to play many sides and enjoy them, whether Axis or Allies.  Because Germany is traditionally 'on the offensive' in WW2 games, playing Germany is often where the action is.  So I very often do play as Germany. I have absoltuely no qualms about doing so.  And I am someone who is profoundly appalled by the crimes of Nazism.  I truly see no contradiction in those two positions.

Do you desecrate Jewish Cemetaries of Synagogues? Do you think Jews control all of mass media and banking?   Do you think Jews are not deserving of citizenship?  If you answered no to these questions you probably are not Anti-semetic.

As someone who is Jewish and has been playing wargames for about 40 years, I too like playing the Germans!  Of course when I lose as the Germans, I don't feel quite as bad 

(Not sure why weird faces are appearing when I type "Do"

Originally Posted By wdkruger (8 AUG 2012 2:44pm)

 

(Not sure why weird faces are appearing when I type "Do"

Fixed.

Two spaces before the  capital "D" make that face.

I think two reasons people like to play Germans are

They had really cool equipment with very cool camoflage schemes...

They are the underdogs (Historically destined to lose).. Just like a lot of  people like to play the South during Civil War games.. people like underdogs..

No, it doesn't.

Like wdkruger, I'm Jewish.  Unlike him, playing as the Germans (I have no problems playing Italian or Japanese forces) makes me very uneasy, and I tend to avoid games that leave me no choice.

Originally Posted By BlondKnight (8 AUG 2012 2:26pm)

I prefer playing as the Axis during WW2 period games, but I wouldnt consider myself anti-semitic since I love stomping the crap out of the Arabs during Arab-Israeli war(s) period games.

I actually think you might find the Arabs are semitic. 

Its a term that I thought covered almost the whole middle east during ancient times.

I agree, the "Lost Cause" syndrone is very attractive whether its Wehrmacht or Confederate.

As others have said.....no, it doesn't.   If I play the British in HPS's 1776, am I a traitor to the American cause?  If I play the Russians in War in the East, am I a communist.  Of course not.

I remember though in the great flight sim days of EAW, CFS, and IL2 the German squadrons always had a disclaimer on their squadron webpage lest some turb browse by, GT comes to mind, and report them to their ISP for violating TOS with hate-crimes or some such garbage.

Originally Posted By Rayfer (8 AUG 2012 3:41pm)

As others have said.....no, it doesn't.  If I play the British in HPS's 1776, am I a traitor to the American cause? 

Damn Tory!

I made a comment in another thread about being able to win (big) as the Germans in Unity of Command. I hope that wasn't the seed that started the idea to this thread.

If it had anything to do with it, here is some more depth to my comment. I do like playing as the Germans not because of any ideology, racism, religious prejudice or cultural superiority. I believe the Nazi regime was one of the most monstrous entities ever inflicted onto the human race in history. The amount of despair, horror, misery and atrocities committed by them can never be condoned, forgotten, or forgiven. However, if it is possible to isolate the military achievements of the German miltary from the murderous political regime, it can be difficult to not be impressed by what they were able to accomplish against the massive forces arrayed against them from all sides. The fact that they came so close to victory against such insurmountable odds has been fodder for wargames for decades and my sometime's interest in seeing "if I could had put it over the top in that situation." As the war turned against them, time and again in all fronts, the skill of the army was able to pull the rabbit out of the hat to save the day against overwelming odds.

It's also important to remember that the world would be by far worse off if the Nazi regime had prevailed militarily. There are a lot of books and research that describe the terrible privations inflicted on the occupied lands on the eastern front in WW2 by the Germans and the huge sacrifices by the Russian Army to defeat the military machine of the murderous regime. It's unfortunate that due to the Cold War that the sacrifices and accomplishments of the Russian Army have not been well publicized as "they were the enemy."

Perhaps it's because of a fallout of that Cold War mentality that I (and probably others) like to play the German side but as the Cold War fades, I can't help but be impressed by what the Russian Army was able to accomplish as time and again, they were able to pull the rabbit out of the jaws of defeat until they were able to wrestle that vaunted German military into the ground.

So, back to the original question of the thread. No, I am not anti-semitic when I play the Axis in wargames. It's only a point of view in a gaming experience learning about history as a recreational hobby.

Ah the morality in wargames.  Actually I was thinking about this one recently.

I started a scenario in CMSF... I'm played the Syrian Army squashing insurgents in a city. 

It wasn't pretty bad for the reblels, they lost a ton of troops while I only had 2 men killed and 3 wounded.  Also lost a BMP.

I felt guilty since I'm playing out a current ongoing conflict.  We wargamers can actually detatch ourselves from the real events and say this is just an excercise in strategic / tactical puzzle solving.  Some say it's a history lesson.  But in my case, a current conflict is not yet "history". Can I say that I am just exploring the tactical possibilities of both sides of the current conflict even if I'm not part of that conflict?

Am I gianing entertainment value from the suffering of real people?

Anyway, I guess I can get back by playing the rebels next round.

 I read something several years ago about a WW2 reenactment event that was hosted by a Synagogue or maybe it was just a Jewish civic group.  It went further to say that SS units were banned from attending which I took to mean that many Jews were Germans and, their persecution and other horrible act of the regeime aside, they were proud of the achievments of their military.

Quite often in whole war WWII scenarios i often prefer the germans due to them having the initative and running the war in the early years. More fun to me.

LOL, no.  Not anti-semitic.

My mention of "Axis Fanboyism" is more in reference to the somewhat common over-glorification of their equipment and armies by many 'wargamers'.  

They tend to only play the one side in such wargames and ejaculate about how omgawezome!!1 their SS/Tiger/Panther/Zero/whatevah is.   Then promptly quit once the original sucker punching success goes downhill and they start losing.

Originally Posted By Nefaro (8 AUG 2012 6:07pm)

My mention of "Axis Fanboyism" is more in reference to the somewhat common over-glorification of their equipment and armies by many 'wargamers'.  

You can't sit there and tell me German paratrooper uniforms don't look cool.

 Nefaro's point is proved...

As Iam German I always feel "Right or Wrong, my country" Altough a couple of years ago I played IL2 and I really had doubts about playing the Germans. But as my interest for the Eastern front grew I learned that the Soviets werent angles either. Stalin letting millions of people starving on purpose in the Ukraine in the 1930s.

But finaly I think that were only playing games and these games doesnt reflect my personal attitude nor my personal opnion.

I just hope the PC Police aren't listening as we may have given them a new idea. Banning any wargame where "The Bad-Guys" can be played or for that matter, have any possibility of winning. The "Bad-Guys" meaning whoever they say is the "Bad-Guys".

Originally Posted By Nefaro (8 AUG 2012 6:07pm)

LOL, no.  Not anti-semitic.

 

My mention of "Axis Fanboyism" is more in reference to the somewhat common over-glorification of their equipment and armies by many 'wargamers'.  

 

They tend to only play the one side in such wargames and ejaculate about how omgawezome!!1 their SS/Tiger/Panther/Zero/whatevah is.   Then promptly quit once the original sucker punching success goes downhill and they start losing.

It used to be that most games themselves built in a lot of over-estimation of the Germans.  Things seem to have come some way and the average good game tends to use more historically accurate representations so that there is some point in playing the allies other than to hang on while the elitepanzertruppeneisenbaugesturbengeshutz wheel around you.

By around 2003 or so the germanophilic players were noticibly less experienced in most games.  You could let them take the Afrika Korps in some scenario where the Afrika Korps barely surived in reality and -- sure enough -- things would go badly for the Afrika Korps despite its enthusiastic (though presumably barely high school age at best) commander.

Now I've kind of lost interest in the whole problem of why anyone thinks there is anything particularly cool about the Germans.  Hey, I'm willing to admit that there is a whole tradition of thinking they are cool, but my basic response is that the whole German thing bored me when I first started playing games 40 years ago and by now I'm even pretty bored with being bored with how boring the whole german thing is.