Agencies tamp down speculation over hollow-point ammo purchases

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/17/agencies-tamp-down-speculation-over-hollow-point-ammo-purchases/

Are you questioning the amount or the type?

sounds adequate.  Keep in mind the federal fiscal year ends on Sept 30, so they're likely going through whatever stockpiled funds they have and replenishing supplies.  In addition to ammunition in small quantities, they're probably also bulking up on purchases of office supplies, printer cartridges, furniture, etc.

There has to be a nefarious purpose.

That one agency has more than one member per million citizens.

With that amount of hollow point munitions they could

shoot an awful lot of small caliber holes in each other.

If they were all in one place.

You should have heard the screaming when the proposal went

forward to ARM some Canadian border officials!!!

"What will our neighbours think of us??!!" some cried.

Since we only have one neighbour others just said well at least

they won't be the only ones armed at the border and will feel more comfortable.

Originally Posted By medck (19 AUG 2012 9:30am)

sounds adequate.  Keep in mind the federal fiscal year ends on Sept 30, so they're likely going through whatever stockpiled funds they have and replenishing supplies.  In addition to ammunition in small quantities, they're probably also bulking up on purchases of office supplies, printer cartridges, furniture, etc.

True enough, spend the budget or see it cut.  I'm well aware.  I wonder if previous years saw the same kind of expenditures for ammunition.  For example, the article says they need 600 rounds per agent (IRS) for training.  Is that yearly?  Marine Corps qualification training is only 300 rounds yearly.  I won't feed the troll by suggesting there's something nefarious but I say the explanation seems inadequate.  Ammunition supplies have been tight since the last election due to increased demand.  I haven't noticed any signs that supplies have greatly improved judging by the prices so bulk orders like these if they are out of the ordinary would make both availability and price see less improvement.  On the other hand if this is 'normal' then the producers were already expecting these orders and there should be little market effect.

Could someone explain to me why they would need hollow point amunition for target practice?

The could well be getting 2 years stockpile after having exhausted their supplies -- seems the sort of thing they might have not bought for awhile and would only buy when they're close to running out.  Given the length of time it takes a contract to go through and the potential hassle for someone like SSA to order ammo, I can see that they would take the opportunity to buy two years' training supplies right at the end of the fiscal year.

I just do not see it as very many bullets.

A gun without bullets is just a crappy hammer.

Bullets do get old and unstable but not as fast as bananas.

When I worked for government the procurement system was

so time consuming and inefficient we ordered years worth of

stuff when the funds were there.  A sudden shortfall could mean

a sudden and indefinite total absence of a commodity.

Why hollowpoint?  I dunno. So maybe an accidental discharge

won't leave the cubicle?  To facilitate ennui and frustration induced

employee suicide? 

Now if it was the POST OFFICE then I would get scared.

cheers

Originally Posted By medck (19 AUG 2012 2:22pm)

The could well be getting 2 years stockpile after having exhausted their supplies -- seems the sort of thing they might have not bought for awhile and would only buy when they're close to running out.  Given the length of time it takes a contract to go through and the potential hassle for someone like SSA to order ammo, I can see that they would take the opportunity to buy two years' training supplies right at the end of the fiscal year.

I doubt two years Marine Corps qualification training would be the same ammunition volume for IRS qualification training.  That's just my supposition but I have conducted ranges for the better part of 20 years for different military branches.  Still it's just supposition.

Good question about why they'd order hollow point for training.  My guess is the order was placed by someone who knows little about marksmanship training and instruction.  There are a lot of people out there who'd have that authority to place such an order.  There's a Youtube video of a DEA agent giving a firearm safety lecture to some school kids and he shoots himself in the foot right in the classroom so there are a lot of perpetrators who have little to no actual marksmanship instructor training that they think they know enough.  Frightening isn't it?

BTW, I've successfully fire ammo well over 40 years old.

Just an aside to your BTW regarding firearm safety. Not a quibble at all,

I do not think anybody would argue that using 40 year old ammo

is such a good idea when there is an alternative.  (You know weapons better than I.)

Especially when you do not know where it has been..like a banana.

We used to regularly disable and destroy large stocks of ageing ammunition.

Maybe their stock is due to be rotated.

cheers

Originally Posted By danlongman (19 AUG 2012 6:27pm)

Just an aside to your BTW regarding firearm safety. Not a quibble at all,

I do not think anybody would argue that using 40 year old ammo

is such a good idea when there is an alternative.  (You know weapons better than I.)

Especially when you do not know where it has been..like a banana.

We used to regularly disable and destroy large stocks of ageing ammunition.

Maybe their stock is due to be rotated.

cheers

 

I'm surprised, but that is a cogent supposition.  They could very well be replacing aging stocks except for the 40 caliber ammunition.  That supply should be relatively new.  But .357, 9mm; definitely a possibility.  It hadn't occurred to me; thanks.

I know little about pistol ammo except having seen it and fired it a few times.

A little study done after this topic came up explains that hollow point is preferred

for pistol ammo used by police and other law enforcement agencies.  The mushroom

effect produces greater tissue damage and reduces penetration.  Thus the bullet

transmits more kinetic energy to the target and reduces the chance of passing

through and hitting subsequent unintended objects.  Upon striking a hard surface

like metal or concrete chances of a dangerous ricochet are lessened since the projectile

will stop or fragment.  Hollow point ammo is illegal in some US jurisdictions and under some

circumstances.  Conversely it is illegal in some places to hunt certain animals WITHOUT

using hollow point ammo.  I will study ammunition over economics any day.

cheers

Originally Posted By danlongman (19 AUG 2012 8:32pm)

I know little about pistol ammo except having seen it and fired it a few times.

A little study done after this topic came up explains that hollow point is preferred

for pistol ammo used by police and other law enforcement agencies.  The mushroom

effect produces greater tissue damage and reduces penetration.  Thus the bullet

transmits more kinetic energy to the target and reduces the chance of passing

through and hitting subsequent unintended objects.  Upon striking a hard surface

like metal or concrete chances of a dangerous ricochet are lessened since the projectile

will stop or fragment.  Hollow point ammo is illegal in some US jurisdictions and under some

circumstances.  Conversely it is illegal in some places to hunt certain animals WITHOUT

using hollow point ammo.  I will study ammunition over economics any day.

cheers

 

The question is not why they order hollow point, but why hollow point for training.  Paper targets can't tell the difference between jacketed and hollow point.  I fire ball ammo for practice and use hollow point for defense.  Significantly cheaper.  This highlights the wasteful nature of government spending; nobody is accountable for government spending like I'm accountable for my spending.