Wargamer Home - Forum Home
Welcome Guest, please Login or Register!
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register or login before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Topic: Game Reviewing 101 What Matters to You

    Page 1

All Forums : [GAMES] : Computer Gaming > Game Reviewing 101 What Matters to You
22 JAN 2013 at 5:47am

Lightning

Centurion
Centurion



Posts : 206
Joined: 1 JUN 2003

Status : Offline

Unlike the typical feature length film, which can run as long as 3 hours, or novel, which can take a weekend to complete based upon your reading speed/ available time, some of the latest games can take upwards of 50 or more hours to complete, particularly if you are loathe to using cheat codes, skip aheads, etc.

 

My question is this -- how important is it to you if a game reviewer does not play a game to completion before offering their take on the game? Are they missing important plot twists, bugs, changes in gameplay, etc., that should be commented on but are ignored or overlooked just so they can get their review into the editor and meet their deadline? 



Profile Search


22 JAN 2013 at 7:41am

Rayfer

Commander
Commander



Posts : 1875
Joined: 19 FEB 2006
Location: US, Michigan

Status : Offline

To me it depends on the type of game being reviewed and the type type of review....rpg's like Skyrim have a main plot line that can be played from start to finish and probably should be played to a conclusion before a full review is done.  Though a 'first impressions' type review is appreciated on rpg's as well and doesn't require a full play through.  But war games like War in the East are usually a collection of many different scenario's and maybe an over arching campaign, which itself is usually a collection of linked scenario's.  On those types of games I wouldn't expect the reviewer to have played each and every scenario to a conclusion before doing a full review.



Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 8:03am

Reich36

Commander
Commander



Posts : 1270
Joined: 29 AUG 2006
Location: US

Status : Offline

Lightning,  I figured I'd bite so here goes:

 

1) Did I like the game? If not why not? (Too many reviewers go into it with an agenda, I don't.) I leave all biases at the door. Worse example: this one guy on boardgamegeek, reviewed Field Commander Napoleon, and he said off the bat he hates solitaire wargames. So why did he review it!? Another one is an infamous review on Conquest of Elysium III- some indie guy who thought he was funny, but he was awful and he used the worst phrase "I wanted to like it but..." To me,when you use "but" you didn't like it, you're just trying to be nice or witty or whatever. He got a takedown by another blogger for that one.  When I reviewed Strategic War in Europe for example, I mentioned that while it wasn't deep (like Hearts of Iron  Strategic Command 2,) it wasn't shallow. There was the nice bits of chrome to make this a fun pick up game, it reminded me of Strategic Command: European Theater most of all. 

 

 

2) How did it run on my machine? - I go into a bit of the techie aspects, lags, moving around the screen, sound glitches, things like that.

 

3) I try to explain the mechanics- This has been the most difficult part of my Alea Jacta Est review. I am still struggling to understand the mechanics, and there is so much that goes on in a turn, and there is a lot of ground to cover. When I reviewed Field Commander: Napoleon, I wanted to explain what went on in each turn and how things worked.

 

4) How did I do? - I use this for a bit of humor, lighten things up. But this is from my experiences playing the game. Think in Magicka when you mistakenly combined the elements and managed to blow yourself up. Fun.

 

5) Bugs I encountered. Major bugs really ruin it, minor while fixable are annoying but does that effect or should that effect a review? I don't think so. FC:N had a messed up turn example, luckily with help from boardgamegeek, I was able to clear the fog and play the turn, and write the review.In others they were patching as I was writing the review.

 

6) I'm human. I might miss something about a historical error, or something,but bear in mind, we are human. We do make mistakes. Remember, this is my opinion, not fact, but I try my hardest to be objective. Also, if I did something wrong I'd like some input, constructive criticism goes a long way. You know how many reviews I wrote without a single comment in the review thread?  Please when I finish AJE, I want input. This is going to be my most difficult review to write.

I usually tell people about my review writing that it is not easy, it is taking something you like and ripping it apart and finding out why you liked it, why you didn't.  

 

Regarding deadlines, if I need more time I ask. I don't rush a review to meet deadline. I know how important it is to be on time, but I also know there is something about quality of work.



Last edited by Reich36 : 22 JAN 2013 8:06am
Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 8:33am

Wolverine101

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 4450
Joined: 14 DEC 2009

Status : Offline

For me the importance is not so much what's in the game (I'll discover than when I play it) but, how challenging it is and how much fun it was to the reviewer of what they did play and the reviewers favorite type of game to play. All too often we get reviewers who like RTS clickfest games and give poor reviews on "turn based games". I expect a reviewer to be an expert at the type of game they are reviewing not a freelance wannabe. I also don't like "blowhard" reviewers who think they need to put every detail of the game in a review. I like a review more like a resume, you put the most important parts in and leave out the boring details. Most of all a review with at least a paragraph on the difficulty of the game and the games AI is the most important. I could care less about fluffy graphics and almost human animations.


Want is the foundation of impatience, a step without thought can be a drop without end


Dbeves: And LMFAO - didnt you just have to work battlefront into your response somewhere - you are priceless.

 

Listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAycDqhog 

 

"ha! GL getting THAT much...lolz"


Last edited by Wolverine101 : 22 JAN 2013 8:34am
Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 1:36pm

ghostryder

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 7422
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas

Status : Offline

Qualifications!

 

too often the reviewer simply isn't qualified to review the game they are reviewing. 

 

As an example a reviewer is doing a Skyrim review--and the word "Lore' isn't mentioned once. In RPG's lore is everything- and it needs to be consistant from version to version as much as any trilogy movie. If lord of the rings turns into harry potter audiences need to know that- and it bugs me to no end when today's reviewers completely ignore it. I'm speaking from a framework of old school reviews ala scorpia- if you don't know her reviews then your probably lost on my argument- but if you do then you know exactly what i'm talking about.

 

This would apply to any gendre be it a wargame or a FPS--not being a FPS fan and not being a console gamer my opinion on any fps i play--and there is some exceptions where i have played some like Stalker, Duex ex-- but overall I'm completely unqualified to review it as i've no reference or standard to compare against seeing I don't touch 99 percent of what's on the shelf.

 

Most reviews are nothing more than info comercials on the big review sites, and most reviews elsewhere are hollow amatuer attempts-- it is very rare to see any review harking back to the days of reading Computer Gaming World where a review was 10 pages long--written by a well informed and critical writer in the gendre they were covering.

 

Again-remember scorpia--


 

The Old Guard


Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 4:46pm

Wolverine101

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 4450
Joined: 14 DEC 2009

Status : Offline

Again-remember scorpia--


 

Heck...remember Computer Gaming World magazine. Ahhhh the wonderful times I had anxiously awaiting the current months copy. Racing through the pages to read reviews of the latest greatest TURN BASED games. lol That was back in the time where turn based ruled and rts was just a twinkle in romper room developers eyes while they watched Big Bird on Sesame Street and begged dad to let them sit in his lap while he played ULTIMA II or Knights of the Desert loaded by a tape cassette that only took 20 minutes to load.


Want is the foundation of impatience, a step without thought can be a drop without end


Dbeves: And LMFAO - didnt you just have to work battlefront into your response somewhere - you are priceless.

 

Listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAycDqhog 

 

"ha! GL getting THAT much...lolz"


Last edited by Wolverine101 : 22 JAN 2013 4:47pm
Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 5:23pm

ghostryder

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 7422
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas

Status : Offline

lol. well RTS did turn up in those old days. Dune. 

 

the fluffy big mags which back at that time was PC Gamer Magazine hollowed it in as the greatest new type of gaming there ever was...while computer Gaming world said basically- Okay, it's a new way to play...but this ain't Dune!

 

Lore matters. I harp this all the time...but let me ask this. Darklands is harrowed as one of the best RPGs of all time. Is that because of it's graphics? it's combat system? Any play mechanic at all? Or is it because of "The World' the game is representing?

 

Lore matters....and you'd be very hard pressed to find any mention of it in a skyrim review anywhere on any site. That's not to say skyrim isn't good- but it is not the Elder Scrolls Lore wise. It's a console RPG and it shows- much of the actual Lore is completely missing or wrongly represented. 

 

That matters--but today's unskilled and console playing FPS reviewer is clueless to it.

 

Already threads abound here about Rome Total War II--and what's the subject "Slaves as rowers?!" Well yeah- none of the Total war games represented the Lore they were based in particularly well- flaming pigs to screaming women with spears-- but i'll bet my left leg most reviews will be focused on graphics and new features and won't even devote a single sentence to Historical accurracy.

 

We historical war gamers will gringe at those reviews and in return pay them little attention-and certainly have little respect for the reviewer.

 

If your doing WWII and the Swastika are missing it deserves a mention just because political correctness has compromised the lore in the game--and it deserves a ding as well in my view. Your either doing WWII or you do fantasy--if you lack the balls then go do fantasy. Don't push that on me as WWII. It's incorrect , watered down and revised and none of it  for gameplay. 


 

The Old Guard


Last edited by ghostryder : 22 JAN 2013 5:50pm
Profile Search
22 JAN 2013 at 11:00pm

robc04

Centurion
Centurion



Posts : 505
Joined: 30 JAN 2012
Location: US

Status : Offline

Hey Ghostryder. I wanted to make a point, not because you are wrong (it's your opinion so you can't be wrong), but just to put up an opposing but just as valid opinion. For a large number of games, lore just doesn't matter to me. Many games are just systems waiting to be explored and figured out. In many games, I don't even bother reading the flavor text. I want the mechanics to be clear so I know the rules I'm playing by and I prefer techs being called Laser I, Laser II, Laser III instead of metaatomic laser, nanolaser and fusion laser if they just represent improving laser technology.

 

There are some games I play for the story (The Walking Dead) and I expect the story to be cohesive and well written. I put in a bunch of hours with Skyrim and it never really grabbed me, but it was due to the repetitive nature of its combat. I never played an Elder Scrolls game because of the writing (the quests, books, or anything else).

 

I can appreciate that some people really get into the lore aspect and probably would prefer it if I did myself - it would probably lead to a greater enjoyment of the game. That stuff just slows me down for playing the actual game. I have no idea if I am in the minority.

 

I loved Computer Gaming World and Scorpia and Jeff Green's rants on the back page. Imagine how it would be now, Steam is having a 24 hour sale on Game X but my next issue of Computer Gaming World hasn't arrived yet!

 

PS - In no way shape or form should my above statements be taken as an argument for me being a skilled reviewer!


Because I play too much,
One Guy, Too Many Games


Last edited by robc04 : 22 JAN 2013 11:01pm
Profile Search
23 JAN 2013 at 6:08am

ghostryder

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 7422
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas

Status : Offline

Good post.

 

Sometimes that is true for me as well depending on the game. The temple of elemental evil- a game which i would say doesn't have particulary deep story based quests- it's a hack a slash--but it does get the 'system' down so well i play it. But it gets repetative and boring after a bit- so I put it down and return later- in short spurts.

 

Now lore doesn't have to be an RPG example. Nor about quests or story. And it doesn't always save a game. See, i love watching the walking dead series but i really deplore the QTEs in the walking dead game. They are illogical and frustrating-and non consistant. staring for a button pop up to press in a timed fashion isn't gaming to me- and i just cannot tolerate that game for very long--regardless of the lore.

 

For Skyrim--or for that matter any of the Elder scrolls games it wasn't the story in the lore-it was the world and mechanics. World-vast and deverse. Mechanics--well in actual lore dual welding, 3 types of armor-light, medium, heavy, clothing, rings and necklaces. Vampires, werewolves. No particular comic races ala talking rats,  lizards or the like found in other RPGs- so it was more gritty and dark. After mods you got your story lore.

 

Once it hit the console it turned lite--many missing weapons, stats, clothes and combat choices- the world turned 'pretty' and generic, the cities shrank to villages, the text choices shrank...etc etc etc.. in Morrowind it was mod fixable. by oblivion it was so out of wack I gave up. It is impossible in skyrim. Few skyrim mods attempt the lore and fewer are quest/story based. the bulk simply deals with unconsolizing the game via graphic tweaks and GUI tinkering.

 

On the strategy side lore can simply help make the game better. People Love playing Emperor of the fading Suns---dispite the screwy GUI, bad A.I., old graphics. it isn;t civ1- but the lore- the depth--make the game. Fix the graphics, gui and A.I.-maintain the depth and lore- and your have a strategy game everyone will play and enjoy--something no system alone can acomplish without the lore grabbing them.

 

in wargames i enjoy them more if I can 'be' the general, commander or whatnot and 'progress' through a campaign. A role playing element. Such as in Tiller's campaign series. Tacking on that in FPS can make them more enjoyable- like Bioshock- The same in flight sims. red baron ruled because you played a pilot in a dynamic campaign. Todays mission based sims hold little over that- dispite the better graphics and flight models. They don't approach the 'lore' enough and fall short. Sure the plane is accurrate- but nothing is accurrate regarding my career flying it. That's lore too.

 

 


 

The Old Guard


Profile Search
23 JAN 2013 at 7:05am

ArizonaTank

Centurion
Centurion



Posts : 588
Joined: 25 APR 2005

Status : Offline

Originally Posted By ghostryder (22 JAN 2013 5:23pm)

 

 

If your doing WWII and the Swastika are missing it deserves a mention just because political correctness has compromised the lore in the game--and it deserves a ding as well in my view. Your either doing WWII or you do fantasy--if you lack the balls then go do fantasy. Don't push that on me as WWII. It's incorrect , watered down and revised and none of it  for gameplay. 

 

This has more to do with business internationalization than typical "political correctness".  Since the end of WWII, Germany has had a law against the display of the swastika, for anything other than scholarly reasons; heck, they even changed the German re-runs of "Hogan's Heroes" and put in a cartoon greek cross where the swastska was.  So if you want to sell your game in Germany, you keep the swatiska off.  Back in the days when the gaming industry was small, they didn't worry about it...think the last time I saw a swastika in a game was SSI's Great Naval Battles.

 

 


"No, No, mix them all up.  I'm tired of state's rights." 

Union General George Thomas' reply to his chaplain, when asked if the dead from the Chatanooga campaign should be buried by state as had been done at Gettysburg.

 


Profile Search
23 JAN 2013 at 7:24am

Dale H

Commander
Commander



Posts : 1254
Joined: 25 AUG 2004
Location: US, Oregon

Status : Offline

Excellent topic. Consider book reviews. There are the expert reviews like the NY Times by fellow authors in the field which give you one slant then there are the amateur ones like on amazon.com which give another. Both are valuable but I think I will take the expert most of the time.

 

In the kinds of games I play I like detailed examples of play which require the reviewer have some expertise both with the game system in order to describe it to me & the historical part the games depict. If they aren't decent in both areas the reviews aren't worth very much to me and it is immediately apparent the reviewer doesn't have a clue.

 

I don't mind a reviewer just going through a tutorial in the game as long as it is in-depth & the reviewer is a competent player in the game engine system (eg. when reviewing an AGEOD game have played one before in depth).

 

I think GR's comment about a reviewer not having any idea about lore in an rpg game is spot-on.

 

Virtually all the reviews posted here have been great for me.

 

Hope this helps.


Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana

I'd rather be right than be president. Henry Clay


Profile Search


24 JAN 2013 at 7:55am

ghostryder

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 7422
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas

Status : Offline

This has more to do with business internationalization than typical "political correctness".  Since the end of WWII, Germany has had a law against the display of the swastika, for anything other than scholarly reasons; heck, they even changed the German re-runs of "Hogan's Heroes" and put in a cartoon greek cross where the swastska was.  So if you want to sell your game in Germany, you keep the swatiska off.  Back in the days when the gaming industry was small, they didn't worry about it...think the last time I saw a swastika in a game was SSI's Great Naval Battles.


I'm aware of the reasoning behind it--I just do not agree with the reasoning behind it. Screw germen sales-- the breaking of immerssion is too far to warrant it. Nazi's were Nazi's-they had their symbol and it needs to be there instead of a happy face-especially in any wargame with an overall slant towards realism. It's akin to replacing national nation flags. Be kinda silly to put big bird up to replace a Japanese flag wouldn't it? Why isn't this concidered just as silly? I'm not talking about wether to put in death camps or not--here many platoons and whatnot never saw them- but to replace what was on most uniforms, tanks, aircraft and all that which is really just a national symbol at the time - to get some extra sales that in the scheme of the whole doesn't equal 5 percent of total gross sales is illogical. the buisness sense to so compromise a game to squeeze every possible dollar is actually more offensive than the symbol in question.


Edit: i got to thinking about this more, questioning for one- if sales are so significant in germany then why does hollywood routinely us the swastika in films? do they edit and recut versions shown in germany? Then i realised there were a lot of european countries affected by the war- so what are their laws regarding the use of the swastika. the more i searched and read the weaker the argument became the game devs use. in fact- the general message--especially around the film Captain America-where not only is the swastika replaced but so is the same emblems on american uniforms-- and i quote "I guess this was done to please the Nazi-lovers and America-haters around the world (including most Muslims who continue to make Mein Kampf a best-seller), who might be offended if bad guys actually wore swastikas and the guys wearing “U.S.” pins on their lapels were actually the good guys.  I mean, it is called, “Captain America,” after all.  Not Captain Mohammed or Captain Switzerland. 


Secondly I remember the first opening scene in schindler's list with the camera closeup of the Nazi swastika--and various sites I learned Iron sky premiered  at the berlin film festival and fully displayed the swastika. Other fims do as well- though they were removed from the DVD cover of Inglourious Basterds they remain in the film within the case, as was the case with Indiana Jones as well


Thirdly France and Hungrary have the same laws- but the details of the laws clearly says the law pertains to public displays and are permitted in Art, movies and computer games.


so not only is the argument weak--it's not even factually based.


http://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/3704/was-the-2012-finnish-film-iron-sky-shown-in-full-in-germany-despite-the-multiple


 

The Old Guard


Last edited by ghostryder : 24 JAN 2013 12:34pm
Profile Search
24 JAN 2013 at 12:10pm

Pat Cleburne

Centurion
Centurion



Posts : 204
Joined: 21 JAN 2011

Status : Offline

I don't read professional reviews.  I judge what games I get based off of profesional review consensus, user average, and my interest in the genre/developer.  Sometimes I will read 3-5 user reviews to get a basic sense of user experience.  Otherwise I don't like to spoil games, or get biased in certain ways before playing.  That's why I also don't read any previews/dev diaries or other things of that nature.  I'm a game journalists worst nightmare I suppose.



Profile Search
24 JAN 2013 at 3:24pm

Wolverine101

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 4450
Joined: 14 DEC 2009

Status : Offline

Originally Posted By Pat Cleburne (24 JAN 2013 12:10pm)

I don't read professional reviews.  I judge what games I get based off of profesional review consensus, user average, and my interest in the genre/developer.  Sometimes I will read 3-5 user reviews to get a basic sense of user experience.  Otherwise I don't like to spoil games, or get biased in certain ways before playing.  That's why I also don't read any previews/dev diaries or other things of that nature.  I'm a game journalists worst nightmare I suppose.

 

Usually the ones having the most fun with games are the ones who don't read the crap online an in magazines. Truth!

 

 


Want is the foundation of impatience, a step without thought can be a drop without end


Dbeves: And LMFAO - didnt you just have to work battlefront into your response somewhere - you are priceless.

 

Listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAycDqhog 

 

"ha! GL getting THAT much...lolz"


Profile Search
24 JAN 2013 at 9:29pm

Dale H

Commander
Commander



Posts : 1254
Joined: 25 AUG 2004
Location: US, Oregon

Status : Offline

@GR

 

Germany banned the swastika because they didn't want any symbols of the Third Reich to become shrines around which paleo- or neo-NAZI's could rally. It wasn't about political correctness as we understand the idea. They weren't about people being insensitive. They wanted to rid themselves completely of Hitlerism. Can't blame them at all. The ban has probably outlived its usefulness because of all the ways people have found around it. However those that are drawn to the swastika now are certainly insensitive at least and probably ignorant of the depth of evil it represented. To know how evil they truly were and still promote the symbol suggests more than insensitivity. It borders on sociopathy or something worse.

 

i am not calling you names and I know you are only trying to make a point. No harm in having the swastika in historical games or in historical movies from places where it hasn't been banned. It used to bother me the same way it does you to see it removed from where it should be but the more I learn about the people who wore it the more I wonder why we tolerate allowing it to be shown at all. It should make your skin crawl looking at it. it does to me and it makes me sick.

 

 


Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana

I'd rather be right than be president. Henry Clay


Profile Search
24 JAN 2013 at 11:19pm

Sigma One

General
General



Posts : 10480
Joined: 13 NOV 2010
Location: US

Status : Offline

Originally Posted By ghostryder (24 JAN 2013 7:55am)


I'm aware of the reasoning behind it--I just do not agree with the reasoning behind it. Screw germen sales-- the breaking of immerssion is too far to warrant it. Nazi's were Nazi's-they had their symbol and it needs to be there instead of a happy face-especially in any wargame with an overall slant towards realism. It's akin to replacing national nation flags. Be kinda silly to put big bird up to replace a Japanese flag wouldn't it? Why isn't this concidered just as silly? I'm not talking about wether to put in death camps or not--here many platoons and whatnot never saw them- but to replace what was on most uniforms, tanks, aircraft and all that which is really just a national symbol at the time - to get some extra sales that in the scheme of the whole doesn't equal 5 percent of total gross sales is illogical. the buisness sense to so compromise a game to squeeze every possible dollar is actually more offensive than the symbol in question.

 

 

I hope this was just a mis-type as it may imply that the existance of death camps were false.

 

As for the Swastika issue, as with what Dale said, its about Germany wanting to distance itself from a rather terrible time in its past. They have every right to do what they want for games that are brought into their country and how they want their people to view them. There are other countries that have odd national laws in the eyes of others, but to them it makes sense.



Profile Search
25 JAN 2013 at 6:06am

ghostryder

Colonel
Colonel



Posts : 7422
Joined: 4 MAY 2004
Location: US, Texas

Status : Offline

Yes- I was not clear. i am not implying they weren't there-what i was trying to say is if they are left out of a game it isn't like removing a symbol off a tank or a plane--many devs lump the two together- and say 'we will not put swastikas or deathcamps in" as if the two are the same--they are not. I had 3 uncles in WWII and none actually saw the deathcamps. They heard about them. But Every one saw the swastika--removing it from a historical representation in a game is really not in the same ballpark as removing deathcamps==they use the one argument to justify the other--

 

And i see DaleH's point- but many friends of mine who are Jewish see the removing of the swastika in games and film as anti-semetic and whitewashing. And you get the reaction as I quoted regarding 'Captain America," 

 

It's a touchy subject no doubt- but it is clear they are permitted in films, documentaries and games-and removing them does offends people as well-aside from the my main point of ruining the historical nature. 

 

Hollywood decided to leave them alone for the most part. The more serious historical films, and some comedies and adventure films as i mentioned above-and when left out cause quite a stir in regards to a fantasy comic movie like Captain america-imagine if they had been left out of Shindler's List?

 

Yet everyone seems okay regarding historical wargames? That seems a bit hipocritical-especially when backed up by a untruth used as the excuse. They are allowed...and removing them does have an impact.

 

The law itself i see no problem with. No public display makes sense. The loophole makes sense. You do not choose if your in public, but you do so choose to buy the game or movie. so the law itself deals with it quite well--what does not is what game devs have decided to do. 

 

Again, if that it the case they should go do fantasy.


 

The Old Guard


Last edited by ghostryder : 25 JAN 2013 6:15am
Profile Search
29 JAN 2013 at 8:55am

airboy

Centurion
Centurion



Posts : 26
Joined: 13 AUG 2004
Location: 0

Status : Offline

Biggest factor: Does the reviewer play the game long enough to understand its strengths and weaknesses?

Equal factor: Can the reviewer write clearly?

Last Factor: Does the reviewer distinguish between game features and their opinion about the game.  Both components are necessary for a good review.



Profile Search
All Forums : [GAMES] : Computer Gaming > Game Reviewing 101 What Matters to You

    Page 1

Jump to:
1 Members Subscribed To This Topic