Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread

Re:Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB (LongBlade)

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:31:50 GMT

FWIW the game is headed to stores today. http://www.wargamer.com...f-Flight-Ships-To-Retail

Re:Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB (siekster)

Tue, 26 May 2009 11:14:15 GMT

Thanks Ghostryder! I'm always learning something new on this site.

For those looking for a link to the program GR mentioned, I found one here
http://download.cnet.com/Trend-Micro-HijackThis/3000-8022_4-10227353.html

Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB (Herman Hum)

Tue, 26 May 2009 10:11:37 GMT

toonces

See, here's a perfect example of "working" DRM.

[snip]

6 minutes later, I have H3 ANW reinstalled, patched back up to latest version, and I am going through H3 scenarios. No muss, no fuss, no hunting for emails/passwords/codes/forums/activations/yadayadayada. I just pull out my backup disk and reinstall. Nice!

The perfect example of DRM that 'works'. The emphasis is that a legitimate user is inconvenienced as little as possible. Now, where's the MP game you owe me... ?

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (ghostryder)

Tue, 26 May 2009 06:29:43 GMT

I didn't realize Impulse was like that..... when I close it using the upper corner X button, it still shows up in my system tray, but when I actually right click on it and shut it down, I see no evidence of it running in my task manager.... how I do know when a program is continuing to run even if it doesn't show up in my task manager?

Thanks!

Not all processes show in task manager- the sneaky ones start from a registry key on every boot- this one in particular is hidden under one labeled 'component manager" and the key that triggers "ImpulseNow.exe" - this system level app executes a process, adds products ro the registry, adds a registry key to auto run programs on system start, can communicate with other computers using your HTTP protocols (causing a security hole), it also creates other processes on disk, registers a dynamic link library plus the process is polymorphic and can change it's structure- which is used to mask itself from AV software definitions- none of this is akin to a downloader but more akin to a trogan. You can use Hijackthis to get the details. This is seperate from Impulse and remains running even if Impulse is shut down.

Also Impulse uses Game Object Obfuscation (Goo) - An alternative DRM. Goo allows them to associate licenses with people rather than their PC which will eliminate the issue of “limited activations”. However it's operating damn close to a key logger to pull it off- in fact if I didn't know what Impulse was I would have pegged it as a keylogger.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (toonces)

Tue, 26 May 2009 05:57:34 GMT

See, here's a perfect example of "working" DRM.

I have all my Matrix Games in a separate folder on my C drive.

Last night, I go to start Harpoon 3 ANW, a game I haven't started in probably a year. I go to run it and I get a "serial validation failed" error. Hmmm. Must be some sort of registry issue from that computer crash I had a while back.

So, I go into my 500CD case. Where's my backup of Harpoon 3? Oh, there it is, on the disk I burned. Gee...I hope this works!

I put it in, open it up...Hey, there's 3 files on here. There's a zip of the game, a zip of the update, and a txt file with all my purchase info, including the serial number. Sweet!

6 minutes later, I have H3 ANW reinstalled, patched back up to latest version, and I am going through H3 scenarios. No muss, no fuss, no hunting for emails/passwords/codes/forums/activations/yadayadayada. I just pull out my backup disk and reinstall. Nice!

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (siekster)

Mon, 25 May 2009 12:44:50 GMT

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (ghostryder)

Mon, 25 May 2009 11:57:33 GMT

Impulse is a bit more intrusive than Starduck central was. Even when shut off it's running in the background. You have to completely uninstall it and hack a couple register keys- as well as reset your firewall to get the effects of it off your system. The games themselves don't require it to run but I'd only put the service marginally better than Steam- the whole concept of what should only be a downloader that is running and pinging the internet when supposively shut off is bogus.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (siekster)

Mon, 25 May 2009 10:51:22 GMT

I've got SOASE, but I got it digitally, so anytime I want to do an install I do it through Impulse. AFAIK, there's no limit to installs, but you do have to use Impulse to get the updates and patches.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Patrocles)

Mon, 25 May 2009 10:46:09 GMT

toonces

Dude, I hear you.

It pains me daily to not be able to play Total War Empires. I'm just shy of Jarhead on the Total War fanboy scale, but I WILL NOT BE FORCED TO GO ONTO THE INTERNET TO PLAY GAMES OFFLINE!

YES, I'M SPEAKING TO YOU TOO, DISTANT GUNS AND JUTLAND.

hear hear!! I'm with you on this, toonces!

And also to any company claiming to be DRM-free but requiring internet connection to 'Phone home'

Has anyone played Sins of a solar empire? They claim to be DRM-free; does this mean the game never 'phones home' on the internet and I can install it as many times as possible? I understand that this has no DRM, but from what little i know you only have 2 or 3 installs and then you have to 'phone home' for additional installs?

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Gusington)

Sun, 24 May 2009 10:25:38 GMT

I got mine here in the US from Target for 8.99 and free shipping.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Hartford688)

Sun, 24 May 2009 07:40:23 GMT

Yes - for example Amazon in UK and US have it; though the UK one will not ship outside UK.

For France, Play.com have it for EUR10 free shipping.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (son_of_montfort)

Sun, 24 May 2009 05:24:15 GMT

Can one even get a copy of CSF3 anymore?

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Hartford688)

Sun, 24 May 2009 04:50:26 GMT

OFF requires CFS3.

ROF is completely standalone.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (son_of_montfort)

Sun, 24 May 2009 04:34:08 GMT

I guess I was confused though, OFF is not a standalone product, is it?

And RoF is?

SoM

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Hartford688)

Sun, 24 May 2009 00:49:44 GMT

toonces

I'll give you a perfect example of annoying DRM. I bought DCS Blackshark via online download back when Jarhead was pimping it like crazy. And, I flew it alot and I loved it and all that.

Then I had that horrible virus-inspired computer crash that led to a semi-reinstall of my OS, a FUBAR of my registry, etc.

Now, WRT Blackshark, I no longer have a registry entry for it, and the sim won't play right now. And, since the registry is fubard, I can't uninstall it. So, I'm left with the option of deleting it and reinstalling it...without the uninstall.

The DRM gives you 8 installs and 10 uninstalls. Since I can't uninstall, I have to burn an install...so now I'm down to 6 installs after a few months and I haven't done anything more than have a computer mess up.

Not a big huge deal, but to be honest, I have no idea where I downloaded from, what my "codes" are, what email addy I used, etc etc etc. I hope I figure it out. Maybe I won't and I won't even have the $50 drink coaster...I'll have a digital drink coaster I suppose.

This is the shit that bugs me. I went against my own DRM principles to get this stupid game, and now I don't even know how to get it back. And who knows how I'll fare 5 years from now when I eventually get a new computer or two.

This DRM stuff has to stop, and it has to stop now. I'm not going to do it anymore. Screw em and screw me. We both lose. Because there are games out there I so want to play, but I'm just not doing this anymore. I made my exception for Blackshark and I'm not doing it again for this exact reason.

I just tried to fire up Blackshark. Will not work because "Blackshark.lua" is missing. But I can check the directory, and there it is.

So I guess I need to use up some of my activations to fix the installation.

I see there is a similar problem for ATI users on the lua activating that needs a patch. Must be good to know you have used up activations to fix a problem that needs a patch to the product you bought.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, I'll be very careful of buying any game with such restrictive DRM.

So no ROF, and I am extremely glad I kept clear of Jutland - much as I wanted it.

[Edit to correct for own stupidity]

I posted on ED forums, and a couple of helpful souls pointed out that I misunderstood the way the activations worked - that with no hardware changes I can uninstall and reinstall any number of times. Did so and voila all well. So now off to eat some humble pie and SAMs.

Nonetheless, it is a bit confusing - would prefer a system where I was not concerned about such technicalities (being a simple soul). Viva the Matrix method.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Gusington)

Sat, 23 May 2009 15:07:31 GMT

I'll clarify SoM...I meant physical copy protection that is done well...no crap that doesn't work or is impossible to use :)

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (ghostryder)

Sat, 23 May 2009 13:43:18 GMT

Ask them this: Why should we respect them enough to buy there game when they don't respect us?

This is how I view DRM. It's equal to a strip search. Every damn time you want to play. Except they keep your underwear-letting your jollies swing in the wind so you can contract irritating rashes. And the strip search isn't occuring in an airport..It's ocuring on the playground where you went to have to fun.

I'd love thier answer but I suspect they'd hang up on you. Me i just find another playground not surrounded by the Kremlin Kremlins. Must be the American in me.

Like Jack said, "In this country we don't bring machine guns to a buisness meeting."

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (son_of_montfort)

Sat, 23 May 2009 09:26:26 GMT

That is similar to Guild Wars, Mark - although technically all of the gameplay is online. Steam operates off of a similar model - although you install the game to your HD you still have to access the online server to play.

The Guild Wars style is fine, but you have to deal with the vagaries of lag and internet connection. Not a great idea in most regards.

Pshaw Gus, I have horror stories of red film decoders that were unusable to read the code, hunting forever for my spin wheel to play Starflight, pouring over my Ultima manuals to get the answer to arcane questions, and trying to count red or yellow stars within a flimsy cardboard box to play Starflight 2. Think - if the current market is trying to lower distribution costs, then imagine what shoddy and poorly produced physical copy protection would be used today! Besides a physical copy protection scheme means no more digital download and I'm not willing to give up that luxury!

I agree with Caput, I predict we get evasive answers in regards to DRM.

SoM

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (MarkShot)

Sat, 23 May 2009 08:46:11 GMT

Perhaps the ultimate DRM solution is that even for SP the game architecture more resembles MMP. Thus, except for rendering and some calculation accelerations, the core of the game does not reside on your PC. This makes the architecture of the game largely uncrackable because more than just the client is needed to play it. The only way to crack the system is to steal someone elses account.

Perhaps that is where all this will ultimately head as WAN performance and fiber become pervasive. Me, I'll still be retro-gaming with my old fat client PC games.

Re:Rise of Flight DRM Bashing Thread (Caput)

Sat, 23 May 2009 08:33:44 GMT

LB, I think the best questions are the ones they will be reluctant to answer: Would the company release a DRM removal patch at the end of product (company's) life cycle, what will the pricing of addon planes be, and how many add on planes do they intend to produce? I'm still not clear on how their multiplayer will work. Client to client, server client, dedicated servers? How will handle users who have bought different add on aircraft? What happens if my internet connection is interupted before i finish a flight? Where will the DRM server's be located, and how many of them will there be (backups if the main drm server goes down?)