Dragon Age - What is your feeling on this?

Strategy

Gusington

I will most definitely not go the dwarf commoner route as that sounds very similar to my everyday existence.
Another query: how is the balance of magic in DA? It doesn't sound like a magic-centric title, which I think is good. I like my magic in doses. Some magic in the background is cool, done like the LOTR movie trilogy: it's there but isn't the end all be all and can be put aside if a player chooses to go that way.

Most comments I've seen (still waiting for mine to unlock... Europe) suggests that magic-users are extremely powerful in this game. In fact, I've seen comments that suggest mages are significantly easier to play than warriors or rogues.

 
I'm reading the same things on the forum (since I'm at the office, and if I weren't reading Bioware forums or writing this post I might have to soil my hands with actual work (yuk!)).  I hear that nukers nuke hard and cc-ers are absolutely vital.

OK Gus I roled a magic user just to get an initial impresion.  They tactically operate the same as NWN.  The subclass move the mage into a specific role nuker, healer and such.  The big difference from a D&D based mage is that spell are not slotted a certain number of spells per lvl or class.  The spell cast using a MMO style mana pool.

As far as the magic lore, I honestly haven't played far enough into the campaign to give an accurate description.  However, I don't think you'll get a minimal magic world.  Clearly magic, runes and such play a vital role in the game.  However you maybe able to play a group that doesn't focus heavily magic, but again not sure if that will impede progress in the later stages of the game.

I've been playing this game a bit so here's my impressions. I've been offline a few days- but was able to snag a copy from Gametrader on the sly- seeing I"ve done all thier webwork-and have been playing this game a couple days now-and have been compiling my thoughts in notepad as I went- so here it is:
Installation went smooth if not a bit long-though I've had other games of much smaller size take longer.
I checked the default settings which defaulted to a lowly 800x600 on both systems I installed the game on- one being quite a beefy system the other a fairly decent midrange system. I cranked the settings up on both and they seem to perform just fine. Just note the game doesn't do a very good job of detecting setting and that you need to do this yourself.
The game starts with a tutorial- which one depends on what character you create- human, elf or dwarf. That's the race choices. Typical except in this game elves are lower ranked than humans- like The witcher- are usually looked down on and live in the slums- whereas in this game are called alienate or something like that. I didn't start any other character so I'll give the runthrough on the character I made.
Character selection bein restricted to just 3 races is also restricted to 3 professions. Warrior, mage or rough- if your looking for something like monk, druid, palidan, or nighblade, assassin or whatnot your be dissapointed. You either use weapons or you use magic- This is a long shot away from character creation of Baldur's gate-which many compare this game- or even neverwinter nights.  In fact it's not even Diablo in this department that offered an amazon, palidan, necromancer nor the skill lines you pick as you progress-  Whatever- but at level 7 and 14 you get to specialize in other lines-again very much like Diablo.
after that you choose a background. I choose an elf- hoping to have a bit of magic and a good bow skill for ranged attacked- after that I was given two background choices -wild elf or city elf- and allowed to pick a couple skills- I choose dual wield and a bow skill-
As you level you gain addition points to spend on other skills- and disappointingly nothing in regards to magic. like i said your a fighter or mage- so my choices examining the chain of future skills are in regards to weapon skills only- be it sword, shield or bow. The only other skills available was herbalist and stealing- but not lockpicking. This hopefully can be filled with schrolls or something but this is not BG nor NWN so get that idea out of your head.
Anyway the tutorial isn't very long. the story is quite sad for my elf- apparantly it's my wedding day- but the human's King's brat prince shows up to snatch our brides right out of a Mel Gibson braveheart movie. I took the diplomatic approach sensing i had no weapons-this was a tutorial and i an only poor slum elf. This seemed the right choice. i get boobed on the head and they walk off with the women but they haven't slaughtered the intire getto- something that's hinted to- Then this Duncan human guy shows up- the town elder's buddy or something- and we (or they) decide me and my cousin should go rescue the girls.
 
This is the first stab at combat in the game. Duncan loans my a sword and shield-apparantly my cousin already is armed and we make way to the castle.
Combat again is compared to baldur's gate but overall I liken it more to a cross between Mass effect and NWN2- the same quirky camera- where half the time the strategic view is obscured by a wall or something forcing one to zoom in and spin the camera to even spot your threat-and hardly ever really giving you full tactical view one remembers from the Baldur's gate games- but moreso from the NW2 combats. - whatever- it's pausable so one can toy around as long as one need to get one's bearings.
 
Combat is easy- even a bit too much so. Until you see a 'yellow' or 'red' lined character- usually near the end of a quest- which is some sort of 'boss' type opponent- otherwise not too challenging- at least not on normal difficulty.
In the tutorial I thought this boss would be the spoiled prince who made off with my lovely bride to be- but it turned out only being his bodyguard. potions act fast so it wasn't more than watch health bar- drink potion- he's dead- go rescue the girls.

Another thing to note there's no resting neccessary here. Your health regenerates as you walk around. So we have a bit of Mario roleplay here- whatever. But your find potions are handy for bosses- everything else if you progress at a steady pace and allow yourself to regen inbetween encounters is even easier than a diablo game. Again pretty much a neverwinter knights experience- but not a BG experience from a longshot. This isn't necessarily bad unless you were expecting the tactical aspects of the BG series- I wasn't so I'm not disappointed. It's what i expected.
I'll touch briefly on the graphics. Not as colorful as oblivion nor as gritty as The witcher-it's very console like much as Mass effect or any other title they've done. The character animations are really done well-and facial textures are again blotty as all previous but look okay.
 
Combat animations are fun and fluid- they really look like they are in battle- but generally the graphics still have that unmistakenly console appearance of overused Bloom and HDR to hide rather substandard texture detail aimed at the memory limit of the xbox360. And much like the NWN series the world is rather hit and miss in detail. Sometimes trees look like simple 1990 sprites copy/pasted in the background while in  other places your see some more detail were they look rather good. Generally speaking after playing Risen Dragon Age looks like a game that was made 20 years ago if you remove the character models.
 Areas are as restrictive as the NWN2 series as well. There's no full map areas BG style here nor free roam - but rather a limited area NWN style-where some doors open, most don't- most things are static except the couple things you might spot in a room. So there's no "everything can be interacted with' ala Oblivion or anything. This is a lot like the Witcher or fallout 3- lots of artificial barriers.
 
there's water, but you can't enter it. There's forests but you can't jump over the fence to get to it. Again, if your porting to technology that is miles away from a PC you have to expect this- but in this case Dragon Age is actually an Ugly game outside in a forest- and only a passable NWN 1.5 on the inside- This doesn't bother me but I do wonder where some of these reviewers get thier drugs.
 NPCs are the same way. and it's rather odd really. Some you can target and get a generic line like , "Good luck" or "May the maker watch over you" while others are totally untargetable- and twilight zone style-even if your butching and splattering a room with blood in an epic fight- will continue washing the floor/or continue to cook as if you and your opponents are in another demension.
There's noticable quirks from cut scene to game as well. In game your be wearing the helmet you equiped, and the cutscene where you go into talk mode will have your hair blowing in the breeze. At one point a cut scene went into, "Look's like another human arrived" but going back to game view the human was nowhere to be seen- in fact he was on the other side of town- quite wierd as the scene was centered on the two of us spotting him, agreeing that we should go talk to him- but going back to the game there was no way in hell neither of us could have possibly spotted him in the first place.
 
Your repeatedly see NPCs walk 'through' you, or be parked with thier head buried in the wall. These clipping and placements issues are a mark of a Rushed product- or a lazy level designer- take your pick - and it's rather a shame as the animations are so well done  - It's like they hired the best animator but farmed out the level building to Manpower day labor. I keep hearing the line from the Gameplay Demo and the hype, "the designers are really proud of thier work.
 
Everything has that Aged look" I wouldn't be.  And sure it has that aged look. I can hardly tell this game from Giants:Citizen Kabuto I bought off Good Old Games.
Other quirks was just the story in general. I really liked reading the codex's as you progress, it really helps draw you in, but at other times the story is so full of holes as to be very offputting.
As an example. We go in rescue the women. One women already dead by these out of control bastards- apparantly the whole slum of elves are portrayed as former slaves and sub-obiedient peons but me and my cousin, armed with a borrowed sword stroll in and wipe out the intire castle of the king's men. Uh-huh.
 Worse-making our way back the cowardly elves that are terrified the King will now retaliate- destroying and killing everyone- we return -blood splattered head to toe- and the King's men show up and demand "who did this' as if it shouldn't be evident since we're covered head to toe in blood- but wait- enter cut scene and magically we're all clean and bathed with polished armor without a wrinkle-Uh-huh.
 
I of course raise my and and take full responsability- very stupid and brave of me- but Duncan steps in- says, 'hey can i have a word with you?" and gets the guard to turn me over to his custody- without a flinch. "Yeah sure, he killed the King's guards, King's son. looted the castle,no problem- he can go with you. I'll make a note of it." Uh-huh
So then i go to say my good-byes to my promised bride- who i just risked life and limb- and am going to crush her hopes of marriage and lifelong dream because i have to join Duncan's celebate band of warriors-and i got about as much of an emotional goodbye as I did from the fat chick that sold me a Starbuck's this morning...Uh-huh
Okay-so no ding dong Witcher belt notch cards, not even a kiss-and thus far the game is written on the level of a Saturday morning cartoon-this is just the tutorial perhaps things improve-or perhaps things go downhill-since both NWN games had awful writing as well I'm not overly surprised- but don't expect to be Planscape Tormented impressed when you start out.
one thing that does stand out is the music, as well as a lot of the acting- it's good-much of it very well done. Other times when things 'should' be rather dramatic things are rather flat- like the cousin who had just been raped and barely escaped death thanks to your rescue-seemed rather unbothered and shrugged it off as a minor annoyance. I don't know such women. Not even in my fantasies in 52 years of living. my experience is given even minor experiences the drama is played to the max by most women-
 
As bad as first impessions went things improve as you make your way to be inducted into the grey wardens. Your sent to the woods to retrieve 3 vails of blood from the darkspawn and some long ancient schrolls. Here again the rather poor textures are apparent. It's about the Opposite of Risen-that has rather poor models but spectacular surroundings in which they interact- here you have rather good models with good animations in a world rather very poorly built. I felt i as in a 1990's game in the woods.
 
Even the original BG games were far more attractive- so like the NWN series this isn't anything to write home about-and clearly the console standards mare the emmersion.
On the plus side the characters start to come alive. Personalities start to be apparant. Much like the BG series you begin to be quite attached and pulled in by your party's banters. Given the choice of eyecandy or this-I'll take the later. The pretty world of oblivion never pulled me in- wheras this suceeds rather well.
Along the way your also notice combat difficulty has been raised a few notches. If someone falls during combat they get up after-but suffer open wounds that weaken them that must be healed with healing kits-and if all 4 fall your be reloading a save. But for the first time in 6 hours of play combat begins to take on a strategic difficulty of the BG games.
The story begins to go up a few notches as well. As you make your way to the chest of schrolls a women appears out of the forest- and it's quite well done. The best acting so far. Your next twist is your return with the schrolls and vails of blood. I'll not give anything away but say again things begin to get interesting. So don't let the tutorial put you off.
 
Some other anoyances- you can have just 2 others in your group- though at this point i've met 4 people who have joined me. Identical to Mass effect where you can swap them in and out before a way mission in that game- here you just swap them in and out no matter where you are in the game--more console syle play to annoy us purists.

And though it was logical in ME before departing your ship-it makes no sense whatsoever here- we should be enjoying a 6 party system.
As I approached level 7 where i can specialize my fighter there were two magic lines- a templat and a reaver. the Templer can dispel- whereas the reaper is an evil class unsuitable for the character I'm playing.
Unlike baldur's gate where you could realistically have 3 tanks, 2 healer and a mage here you need a tank and a mage and you got to choose whether a bard/rougue should replace your healer or your mage. It's pretty restrictive. Again more in line with a slim NWN2 rather than the robust party control of BG.
Still the battles are fun- so again unless you were expecting this there's little reason to be disappointed.
I've managed to light thebeacon which anyone who viewed the combat demo is familiar with. The Boss fights are indeed fun. My party of a two warriors and a mage had a time of it. Both members went down, I had the Ogre to a sliver of health and myself with just a few hitpoints. One hit I die but it would take a special ability for me to do it in one hit, so i ran, turned, used a duel wirld thrust and took him down- with a very well done animation of it all. Very satisfying.
The game does crash ocassionally on both my systems. Once after a long session. Keep this in mind and save every so often.
 
So does the game live up to the hype? Of course not- do they ever? Still it's a fun game.
Is it anything like baldur's gate? No. Unless you concider hitting the spacebar and giving orders the same- aside from that this game doesn't resemble BG, or really any old school RPG. It's more akin to Mass Effect meets Diablo- with some limited party management.
 
The level progression is almost Diablo itself- and the party managment IS Mass effect.
 
Unlike ME or Diablo it's not a Mouse click nor does it seem repetative nor boring. On the contrary it's fun, the music stands out , the story is okay, the characters well animated and acted- and though it is obvious this game did not take in the strengths of a computer compared to an Xbox360 at least we get a computer interface.
I'm happy enough with it and would recomment it- and i have quite a bit of time in it at this point.

My grips-

1. limited party size.
2.restrictive class choices.
3. too much xbox on the computer. If your selling it on the computer take advantage of the machine- Had they this game would be epic- as it is it's just another Mass effect ported with a revamped interface- but the same milky ugly textures-limited map areas and so on.
4. Quirks and small bugs- none game breaking.
5. Ugly. Worse wandering outside in forests areas rather than inside- which compares to NWN2
6. Overuse of bloom and HDR effects. The textures should have been totally replaced for the PC version. They weren't.
7. overuse of blood splatters just as decapitation is overused in Fallout 3.


Likes.
1. well acted
2. Good feeling of progression dispite the 'Bethseda level with your because we can't balance a game' setup.
3. grabs you for hours in long sessions
4. Exceptional animations
5. very good music
6. Fun factor is met dispite any grips-well worth playing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

^Ghost your spelling is atrocious but you, as always, are thoughtful and forthright with all the valuable insights you so generously provide us here at Wargamer.
 
Survey say's,
 
Generosity: A+
 
Spelling: C-
 
Thoroughness: A+
You don't need me to tell you, but keep up the good work!

It is better to die by a swords quick thrust than to be impaled for a lifetime upon the sharp tongue of a woman.
-Grim Jack

I also apologize for the mangles format- copy/pasting in these forums undues everything. I went thru it and spaced it as best I could in a hurry.
 
Also one small correction- you can actually have 3 other party members - IF---and I note IF you carry out the quest of healing the dog. I didn't finish the quest thus never got the dog nor his 3rd slot in the party setup- this could be a bug- as when I created a mage and did the quest I then could have 3 others join me - whereas my warrior didn't do the quest and only has 2 party slots--so make sure you do that quest so the dog imprints to you and you get the slot- afterwards you then can have a total party of 4 instead of three.
 
You pick up 2 more characters in your first town right after the main battle involving the King. A bard in the tavern(female) and the warrior locked in the cage. (Hint. Get the bard first or you can't convince them to release the warrior)

^No apology necessary.
 
Excellent post!

It is better to die by a swords quick thrust than to be impaled for a lifetime upon the sharp tongue of a woman.
-Grim Jack

Music is good eh? Anyone else agree? I think there's a version of the game available with the soundtrack on disc too, isn't there?

Ghost I did not know which way you were going to go there...I thought for sure you were going to dislike it more, nevermind recommend it!

Just remember kids, when you need something wholesome and innocent like Sesame Street twisted into something sick and perverted - I'm just a phone call away.

-HR

hehe I wrote that during my 2 days of play- typing my thoughts as I progressed- so yeah intial impressions were as they were- but the game saves itself after you progress past the tutorial-

Great initial impressions ghostryder.  Thanks.   I'm enjoying the game.  The cut scene cinematics are well done and move the story along as if you are a part of a grand epic novel.   One clarification, at levels 7 and 14 you get to branch your character out into a more specialized profession.  For example, my rogue can choose to become an assassin, ranger...or two other choices which I can't remember at the moment.  The game, as you point out, does have its flaws and limitations but I've been swept up in the story.  I give a solid 'A' rating.

Yes i briefly noted the 7 and 14 branch- so for example if your shooting for a bard go with a rouge - or you can actually go much like a cleric with the mage choice -note also that level 14 branch can be totally a 3rd branch- but you need to locate the trainers to take advantage of any.

I have yet to see any problems with clipping at all. In fact, the game, on my rig, is gorgeous. It does not use too much post-processing like OFP:DR (which caused me to uninstall the game about 30 minutes after I had installed it]. I, however, do think that the characters do look a little lifeless and cardboard-y, but it is not something that I am going to bitch too much about.

Overall the game has impressed me. There is a story here that I am actually interested in.

The Chaos Project

Petty Officer Third Class, United States Navy

Looking out over the forest in dragon age.


 

looking out over the forest in gothic 3
 

 
amd conversely what passes as grass in DA.

Same system- quad w/ 9800 1g ram under windows 7 - everything maxed. 1920x1200 res

The graphics don't bother me so much.  I actually like the simplicity.  I also think that part of the design goes along the WoW design concept of making the game playable on as many varied systems as possible.  (I have Risen and Gothic 3 as well.  I like the graphics.  They are spectacular, but sometimes its frustrating to be in dense vegitation and not be able to see a sodding thing) Additionally, I think a point to take into consideration is that Bioware's RPG's are about the story.  The story line for DA so far is very immersive.

The main difference is the quality of the shadows - DA is clearly the newer game as there is more contrast and the shadows give the picture more depth.   That for me makes it the nicer picture to look at.  The Gothic 3 picture looks flat almost like taking a photo on an overcast day (maybe it was an overcast day in the game when you took the picture?)  It's amazing how well Gothic 3 stands up given it's age though. 

The game does crash ocassionally on both my systems. Once after a long session. Keep this in mind and save every so often.

It doesn't have an autosave feature? I would be madder than a banty rooster if I had played 6 hours and it crashed and no autosave every so many minutes. That's something in todays time every game should have since they all crash for some reason or other.

A.I. production-it's more like, Okay, the games about ready--lets stick some A.I. in- you have 3 weeks.

It autosaves as you pass from area to area- and thankfully usually before a Boss battle. At most you may loss 30 minutes of play if you get a crash. Note the game has only crashed twice on one system- and once on the other- after quite long play sessions. In fact I came here as the game just crashed on me.

Steam downloads may suffer more after Steam wraps itself around the .exe- but this is nothing one can't live with -at least in the boxed version.
 
Graphics don't bother me either- I still play NWN1- and NWN2 was a game I have but don't like- but would compare it as closest to what you get here- except here the acting/story is heads over heels better- the overall flow and pace better- and so on. The more you play the game the more attached you get to the characters and story-
 
And again unlike Baldur's gate series where one needs a walkthrough to keep track of the many branches, quests and puzzles- this game really has no puzzles per say- though some choices during conversation should be thought over before answering. But i've yet been stumped and see no reason for any online help.
 
Some cheesy things still persist. When you get to your perma-camp and you meet the supplied camp mates there's some in game marketing for DLC bucks- one merchant wants you to help him - a promise from duncan made for the Greywolves- but you can't accept the quest until you 'log in to buy it' - which is actually in the dialouge tree- I mean talk about product placement!  
   

 
It is true BTW Magic users have a better go of it than fighters- solely for thier crowd control spells. Freeze and paralyze spells give a party a huge advantage- and you really do not get one as a joinable NPC- you get the forest witch -who's closer to a shapeshifter and you get a female bard- The witch has a freeze spell but the mage I'm playing in my second game has all kinds of crowd control spells- as well as helpful healing spells. Bring along two warriors- the witch and you being a mage is miles easier than my duel wielding /archer warrior-

Thanks for the initial impressions ghostryder, glad to hear it lives up to a number of your expectations, although predictably not to all of them.
 
Steam is now reporting the Digital Deluxe edition released on the third. I don't think so bro. I believe it released somewhere last night.
 
I finished HotU with the "good" ending, so now I'm ready to roll with Dragon Age.
 
I'm thinking about doing sort of an AAR. I know I promised to do an AAR for Operation Barbarossa, but those scenarios were over way too soon.
 
This might not be the website for a RPG AAR, but still, I could write one. The main problem would be trying to exclude spoilers.
 
-
 
As to mages: Well, they were more powerful than melee characters in any D&D game too after a certain level. Mages got so many "save vs whatever or die" spells that in a one on one fight between a warrior and a mage, the mage would almost certainly win.
 
I think I'll roll a mage in Dragon Age to see how good spell combinations are.
 
As to using mana/stamina for special abilities: I don't mind all that much. It isn't D&D and the latest edition of D&D also has something of a "spell usage is tied to points" system. Watching my party sit on the ground in NWN waiting for an on screen "Resting" bar to fill up is probably less immersive than having a mana bar by design.

ComradeP

As to mages: Well, they were more powerful than melee characters in any D&D game too after a certain level. Mages got so many "save vs whatever or die" spells that in a one on one fight between a warrior and a mage, the mage would almost certainly win.

In this game, it appears they are pretty much better than melee character right from the start.

@ghostryder: Interesting that you think this is easy on normal, as that contradicts what everyone else is saying. I'm hoping you are wrong and simply haven't gotten far enough into the game (most comments suggests that the difficulty ramps up very suddenly about 10-15 hours in), as I'm definitely hoping for some non-filler action in this game.

/Strategy
Designer/Developer, The Imperium Project

Most reviewers seem to agree that the tutorial/origin chapter is not all that difficult, but as the reviewers (and ghostryder, later on in his post) state: the difficulty seems to pick up after that.
 
I hope I can find a breakdown of what the difficulty settings do to the game. If playing on a higher difficulty setting makes enemies stronger without giving me more XP for them, I'm going to play on Normal.
Edit: The Hard difficulty makes enemies stronger, more resistant to spell effects and makes your party receive full "friendly fire" damage.
 
I would like to play Normal with 100% friendly fire, instead of 50%, but I guess I'd have to wait for a mod in order to be able to do so.
 
By the way: there's an option to turn off persistent gore, so if you don't want to see blood covered characters in cutscenes, you can turn off the blood splatters. It seems the blood is just a visual gimmick placed on your armour. If you change armour, the blood disappears.

 Where do you turn the gore off at? Really dont want to turn it off but its just a little over the top, especially during cut scenes.