Dumb a$$ question: Platoon tactics - patrol positions

I know the first person in a "column" patrol is called "point", but what about the 2nd and 3rd or even 4th guys?  Do they have designated names or nick names?  I looked at the USMC patrol manual (BO330) and the US Army manual (FM 7-8) and I can see the 2nd guy is CVR(?), the 3rd is NAV (navigator?), and the fourth is SUL(?), but the same manual doesn't appear to define what these mean (by the way, I also didn't see them defined in USMC FMFM65).
 
I'm asking for two reasons:
1)  I was watching a TV show the other day and someone refered to the second guy as "slack".  I hadn't heard that before and didn't know if it was a new or old or made-up term.
 
2)  Last week in the grocery store, I told my 7 year old (who was hanging on the back of the shopping cart and getting in the way) to "get in front and take point".  Of course, she wanted to know what "point" was so I told her.  But then we had to figure out what name her sister, me and the misses were.  And now I won't be able to sleep until I know...
 
Hat in hand to you military type guys,
 
Jack Nastyface

Its not a dumb question...unfortunately, there is no simple answer other than, it really depends.

It depends on the type of patrol and the objective. This will dictate the kind of formation and the general elements and units which make up the formation.

Generally though, a typical squad sized patrol formation will consist of 3 units. The HQ Unit, the Assault Unit and the Security Unit. The shape of the formation and the positions of the men will change depending upon the situation. For instance, are you patrolling in jungle or wooded areas? Are you crossing a linear danger area? Are you crossing a cross-compartment danger area? The list goes on and on...there are different formations for each situation. Additionally, different types of patrols may include different types of units. For instance, an ambush patrol will include the Sec., HQ and Assault units, but will also include a support unit and a aide & Litter team, as well as a search and EPW team.

The FMs will be of little use to you as a civilian. They will contain a lot of abbreviations that make no sense, like SUL, AUL, PL, APL, etc. etc. (ie. Security unit leader, assault unit leader, patrol leader, assistant patrol leader, etc.) The Marine Corps loves f'in acronyms, it can drive a man nuts... RP, IRP, FUC, ORP, etc. All these you'll find are associated with patroling.

For the purpose of the grocery store, you and your kids can stick with: Point, Rear, Left Flank, Right flank, and if you're smart, you'll tell tham that you are the patrol leader.

Anyway, its been a long time for me and I've long forgotten the specifics, I'm sure Smuck can give you a much more thorough answer...hope some of this helped...

 

Jarhead,

Thanks for response and sorry for the delay.  We are currently renovating La Maison Nastyface so am limited to internet access from work.

The FM's and BO's actually make for interesting reading for a civilian like me.  In fact, I wish I had the field medical manual when I did my industrial first aid course many years ago - it would have been a great resource.

I'll take your suggestions on grocery store positions (flanks can cover each side of the aisle) but I don't think I'll ever be PL.  That would require giving orders, and I rarely get a word in between the three female code talkers in the unit.

Best regards,

Jack Nastyface

I don't think I'll ever be PL. That would require giving orders, and I rarely get a word in between the three female code talkers in the unit.

I saw a women who was very well organized a while back in the store. She had her kids all hold on to the cart with one hand. They were quiet too, don't know how she managed that.

I usualy go to the Grocery store solo. Every once in a while I take my wife. I have a chronic problem with her wandering off in the store. She gets really pissed if I tell her to stay in one place. I'm guessing she would get pissed if I told her to hang on to the cart.

I think what we need is a Stephen King, kind of a movie where horrible things happen to children and spouses that wander off or make noise and disturbances in the grocery store.

Medford Oregon Gamer Group + Free Miniature Rules and a Print and Play Board game.
http://lancerunolfsson.googlepages.com/home

C'mon you GREEN 'Cruit !  You know this stuff !   You tryin' to get Recycled !  What you like Mess Hall food or something ?  Don't be a Gold Brick !  Point has imaginary friends because he's all by his lonesome and knows no one will help him until he gets capped or steps on a land mine.  He hopes he has some real friends like: Butter Bar, Sniper, SAW, Supporting Fire, Sad Sack, Jim Crow, Chicken S&it, Shell Shocked, Deserter-but-he's-coming-back, Commo, Medic, Flanking, Envelopment, Over Run, Take no Prisoners, and Gold Brick.  The second group has special friends that they can talk to called, Reinforcements, Reserve, Armor, Artillery, Close Air Support.  The latter group has really special strategic friends with secret call signs all over and even on islands and in castles, however, they all call upon the Creator when the Shinola-hits-the-fan !  There's one other guy.  He's above Butter Bar and he has two silver Bars and he says:
 
Don't forget what Kelleher said, 'If we are at war, cold, hot or otherwise, casualties and losses must be expected and perhaps we must learn to live with this type of thing. If we are in for fifty years of peripheral fire fights we may be forced to adopt a rather cynical attitude on this for political course of action something like General Erskine outlined which would instill in the soldier a much more effective don't get captured attitude, and we should also push to get the military commander more discretionary authority to retaliate, fast and hard against these Communist tactics."

Olde Tyme SPEARHEAD Soup ! Two (2) Diced Trunion Bearings, One (1) Minced O-Ring water obstacle crossing seal.  One (1) Chopped Loaders Hatch Gasket-- beat gasket with Bore Evacuator Spanner Wrench until tender...

I know things are different and our patrols were much smaller in number, but with Recon(USMC) , a four man patrol was: #1 the point man, #2 navigator (usually the team/patrol leader), #3 commo man #4 "tail end charlie"...the guy covering the rear 180.

If the patrol was 5 man, then position #5 was usually the team/patrol leader, and every one else was the same as the above. The weapons mix was typically varied depending on the mission. This was late 70's early 80's.

For hydrographic surveys, we operated in the rare platoon-sized units. We still inserted in combat swimmer/ boat or scuba teams to hit the beach and set up for the survey. Again the weapons mix depended on which part of the survey your team was apart of....beach teams, surf teams, security teams, etc.

With SF, we broke up into two, 6 man teams with similar positions while on patrol as when I was with Recon. This division of the team also depended on the mission and whether or not the entire team was in movement at the same time or not and also, method of insertion/extraction.

I spent time in the Grunts too. Back then, we used the 13 man squad as the basic maneuvering unit. I've heard the Corps went to a 10 man squad now, so I don't know what the breakdown of a squad was. The 13 man was a squad leader, and 3, four man fire teams. Fire team one almost always had the assitant patrol leader as the 1st fire team leader.

I guess I could break things down more but, reading more of the posts on this thread, I think I may have OD'd already.
 
Jarhead is right! The Corps does love its acronymns. All branches have their own but the Corps seemed to really go overboard with them.

I wonder how many former Marines out there STILL remember the mission of the Marine rifle squad...verbatum! Funny thing, I still do and it's been decades now! funny the things that never leave you in life and the Corps!

Hi Semper Fi !  Beautiful writing.  Tactics are so personal.  Thanks for sharing some of your personality.  Sic Semper Tyrannus.  Godspeed

Olde Tyme SPEARHEAD Soup ! Two (2) Diced Trunion Bearings, One (1) Minced O-Ring water obstacle crossing seal.  One (1) Chopped Loaders Hatch Gasket-- beat gasket with Bore Evacuator Spanner Wrench until tender...